Wet exhaust coal firing

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tom_tom_go
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Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:33 pm

I find when running with my coal fired engine that it spits out a fair bit of water from the funnel, is this normal?

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by DLRdan » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:26 pm

I wouldn't be concerned Tom, I have a couple of large coal fired locos and they still have a wet exhaust even at 3ft long. You could try adding some thin insulation around the cylinders.
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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:57 pm

Still not convinced I should have this much condensate when running?

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I make regular stops on my railway as I don't have a continuous run so is that reason?

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by GTB » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:41 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:57 pm Still not convinced I should have this much condensate when running?
Odds are the front end of a coalie is no wetter than a similar gas fired loco, but on a gas fired loco most of the crud can drain out through the hole in the bottom of the smokebox. On my locos I use a crud arrestor to ensure liquids drain only out the bottom.

On a coal fired loco the oil and condensate have only one exit and the blast makes sure it is ejected up and out........

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:16 pm

Thanks Graeme, I guess I am just use to the benefits of having a Summerlands chuffer fitted to my gas loco.

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by DLRdan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:50 pm

That does seem an awful lot of condensate, however stopping will cool the cylinders down. Next time you have a run, try running on blocks at a similar speed to your normal run and see if the condensate lessens. Alternatively, is there a continuous run local to you ?
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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:54 pm

I remember being told long ago that RH locos cannot have auto drain cocks but I don't know why now?

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by DLRdan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:52 am

Not sure why Tom as I have seen them fitted to a Billy on Youtube, they do hang very low so this might be where its come from. I fitted them to a 5 inch gauge bagnall over the summer and found that excessive oil caused them to stick closed, a problem you tend to find with any Roundhouse lubricator
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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:06 pm

This is another idea installed by someone on YouTube to deal with condensate:



The drain cock looks like the Accucraft type?

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:32 pm

If I wanted to go down the cylinder drain cocks route can I remove the cylinders to be tapped without messing up the valve timing?

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by DLRdan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:09 pm

Yes, all the valve gear can stay where it is. Not sure how the steam pipes work on the coal version but you should be able to remove the cylinders and leave everything else in place. You will most likely need to reset the valve position once refitted but the timing will be un altered.
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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by AFGadd » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:24 pm

I have a coal-fired RH JACK, and it is very "wet".
It is a very small coal-fired loco (as coal burners go) and this may be a consideration?
But, without a doubt, the reason it is wetter than my gas burning engines is that the steam passes from the regulator in the cab (via the lubricator) and travels to the cylinders through the boiler. NOT through the firebox or tube space, through the boiler. The steam is getting NO superheat whatsoever...
The loco is very thirsty when running and very wet at the front!
It doesn't bother me, I love the "hands-on, blowing in your face of it". But it is "wet"...

Mine's an ELR conversion, what's yours?
Andrew

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:23 pm

Hi AFGadd,

You are correct regarding why there is so much condensate, no super heating.

An idea has been suggested by my local group to lag the exhaust pipe but I don't know what to use?

My little monster is a Riverdale Amy.

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by AFGadd » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:13 pm

Anything...

I lagged a steam pipe on a Bertie, from the regulator to the lubricator and then on its way to the firebox.

I lagged it with some rather fine string, a tiny dab of superglue to hold the end of the string and then just wound away till I reached the other end of the pipe. Just tucked the string back under itself.

It works too, there was a noticeable difference in the locos handling. Mind you, there's a lot of pipe in a Bertie cab!

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:17 pm

Thanks Andrew, I think I will try lagging first before anything else.

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by GTB » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:27 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:17 pm Thanks Andrew, I think I will try lagging first before anything else.
Worth a try I guess...... Paint the lagging so the string is sealed, otherwise it just absorbs water and/or oil depending on where it is.

The Garratt has insulated steam lines and superheating and it is still the wettest loco I have. Second wettest is probably the Shay which isn't superheated, but the thing both have in common is very long external exhaust lines and more than two cylinders.

FWIW. I tallied up and half my locos have a flue superheater, while the other half don't and have external main steam pipes. I don't notice any major differences in wetness at the front end, although I don't run very often in temperatures below 20C.


With respect to cylinder drain cocks, have you considered fitting the exhaust intercepting valve that Roundhouse use on the Silver Lady. I assume they'd sell you one if you ask nicely and you already have your SL for reference to work out how to fit it into the steam pipes. No drilling, tapping, etc. and no clearance issues.

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:05 pm

It's interesting regarding lagging pipes as the non-forum people I have spoken either say it works and then some say it's pointless - argghh!

I did think about the Silver Lady exhaust block but it's not a simple install from memory or even possible, I need to have another look methinks.

I believe my situation is unquie as I am trying to run a coal fired loco on an end to end layout so I have to deal with even more condensate as the loco is not continuously running.

Mr Riverdale said that I can say from him to my wife that it is a shame not to run a coal fired loco on a continuous layout and that the land should be reclaimed back from the garden!

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by markoteal » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:21 pm

Judging by his advice, Mr Riverdale is probably a customer of the famous welsh lawyer, Dai Vorse :lol:
Where did I put that uncoupler?

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:31 pm

As the weather is so pants at the moment I don't mind this loco being out of service so I thought I would lag the pipes:

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I will paint the lagging black I think (I know most paint it white but as the lagging is over scale to be more effective I don't want it standing out).

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Re: Wet exhaust coal firing

Post by GTB » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:35 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:31 pm I will paint the lagging black I think (I know most paint it white but as the lagging is over scale to be more effective I don't want it standing out).
Neat work.

Ships and power stations have white steam pipe lagging. Can't say I've ever seen it on a full size working steam locomotive, although there are probably over restored 'preserved' examples out there...... :roll:

Graeme

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