Loco Build based on "Eric"

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Peter6911
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Loco Build based on "Eric"

Post by Peter6911 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:01 pm

I am new to this forum, but have been so kindly welcomed by a number of experienced members, that I shall have a go at documenting my first ever loco build.
Maybe this might help someone thinking of building a loco from (sort of) scratch.

Currently I do not have any experience with 16mmSM32 modelling, running live steam locos, nor do I have any stock or track.

Please be merciful if events go wrong or I make a pig's ear of something. Showing a build is a bit nerve wracking!


Background.
This all started when I recently came across Peter Jones' book on building small steam locomotives and was struck by how delightful they looked and the possibility that building one might be within my modelling/engineering skills. I cannot possibly afford the casting sets and so on for larger "scale" locos, but love the idea that a garden narrow gauge railway can be whatever you want.

Having joined the 16mm Association and met with some guys from my local area (East Devon) I was definitely hooked.
I purchased Brian Wilson's book (Steam Trains in your Garden) and carefully studied his plans and notes on building "Eric" - a small 0-4-0 loco. Such a good book, well written and the plans are all there, so I have decided to give it a go.

Project.
I am not sure in what form the eventual loco may be, but I do like the saddle tank version with a tall thin funnel and the traditional "Hunslet" style smokebox.

There is a build of this loco construction posted on this forum by ACLR, started in 2008, but sadly unfinished (so far).
Reading that also helped fire up my enthusiasm to have a go at scratchbuilding as far as possible.


Fortunately, I do however possess a pair of model loco boilers, (I gave a fuller description of them and asked for help on these in a separate post on the "Help Me" forum), built many many years ago by an elderly model engineer who had sadly passed away, and which came into my possession via a local scrapyard some years ago and then stored, almost forgotten.
Original Boilers.jpg
Original Boilers.jpg (339.95 KiB) Viewed 8334 times
I was worried that the criss-cross water tubes might preclude the use of a "poker" type burner as shown in the "Eric" plans.
Cross tubes.jpg
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Thanks to Graeme (GTB)'s advice, I got in touch with Jerry at Clevedon Steam, (no connection/usual disclaimer) and after a most helpful chat, discovered the boiler could be fired with one of his gauze propane burners and an "adaptor sleeve".
Thanks to Jerry, the burner, jet and a ready part - formed adapter sleeve arrived this morning.
Burner and flange.jpg
Burner and flange.jpg (336.23 KiB) Viewed 8334 times
A trial "fit" looked promising.
Soldered flange.jpg
Soldered flange.jpg (316.88 KiB) Viewed 8334 times
I silver soldered it onto the small lip of the flue tube, using silver solder paste - very quick and easy, and no need to make up "Easiflow" flux.


The eagle eyed among you may have spotted that there is an abundance of orifices in these boilers - apart from two proper tapped bronze bushes in the boiler top, there are 5 tapped holes in the backplate and two tapped holes at the smokebox end.
Most of these must be blanked off with bushes - for the next job.
None the less, I am encouraged to think I may well end up with a good quality loco boiler, thanks to a chance meeting in a scrapyard!

The other metal stuffs for the wheels, chassis and cylinders also arrived from Mallard Metals (no connection/usual disclaimer) who have always been able to provide what I need. Unfortunately, the 18inch strip of 1.6mm flat steel (32mm width) for the frames was so abused by the shipping courier (it has several Z curved bends in it where other parcels have squashed it or its been thrown around too lustily) that I fear it may be impossible to get two flat and parallel frame sheets from it.
We shall see.

I have found a vendor who supplies etched steel parts - and I may well use this as a source for the rods, slidebars and Walschaerts valve gear components.

As I said earlier, this is my first attempt in this field, and I am in awe of the many superb locos exhibited on this forum. This is a fairly simple loco in comparison.

I'll try and do a bit more to the boiler tomorrow (after fulfilling my cooking duties to help my dear wife. Weekends are for curry!).

Best wishes to all,

Peter
Last edited by Peter6911 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Keith S » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:40 am

Well, I will be cheering for you. I've always wanted to make my own steam engine, but haven't been brave enough (so far).

I'll be watching with great interest!

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Post by Joe » Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:18 am

I'm looking forward to following this project, thanks for all the Description and well one to the 16mm hobby there's lots of nice people who I'm sure can help you out if needed
Steam is highly under rated

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Re: Loco Build based on "Eric"

Post by GTB » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:58 am

Peter6911:111330 wrote: Project.
I am not sure in what form the eventual loco may be, but I do like the saddle tank version with a tall thin funnel and the traditional "Hunslet" style smokebox.
Nothing like building a steam loco to keep you off the streets at night. 8)

You've taken the biggest step, which is starting........

If you mean the little green saddle tank on page 125 of Brian's book, that is only surviving Peckett 'Cranmore class', preserved by Puffing Billy in Aust.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~telica/P ... Grice.html

Jim Fainges' drawing of it is here. I think the model in the book is 7/8" scale, as the original is a tiny loco.

http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/ ... eckett.pdf

Model Engineers Laser has various laser cut bits available for Eric, including motion parts.

http://www.modelengineerslaser.co.uk/lo ... ocotype=16

Regards,
Graeme

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Post by Peter6911 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:29 pm

Thank you Kieth, Joe and Graeme for the encouragement.

Yes Graeme, I found that vendor of laser cut parts - he's closed at present (holidays) but re-opens next Tuesday - I shall be calling him.
Thanks also for the links - what a sweet little engine.
I shall try to get something of its flavour - but early days yet.

The frames are worrying me a bit because of the state of the steel sheet - I've tried gentle flattening in the vice and so on - I don't know if a little gentle heating may help (?stress relieving?).
Maybe with the brass cross pieces will be enough to pull everything in line, but if the chassis is even a bit out of kilter, everything else will be compromised.
I may have to buy the etched frames too - we shall see.

As I said, I have had to teach myself engineering practice and techniques, but have been coached to a large extent by a retired "old time" workshop engineer - who learned HIS trade at the feet of even older precision engineers (the days when practical skills were common place and valued!).
I hope to be able to pass on a few practical tips I learned from him - once his generation is gone, all that know-how goes with it!

His favourite tool is an "FBH". (Yorkshire dialect - a ...ing Big Hammer)

Well the curry is done (a world without curry would be a terrible place), so I'll get into the 'shop and have a go at turning up some small, threaded bronze blind bushes to blank off most of those holes in the boiler end-plates.

More anon.

Best wishes and thanks to you.

Peter

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Post by Maple » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:47 pm

looks like a great project please keep us posted
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Post by Dwayne » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:10 pm

Peter, looking forward to following your project. Not something I foresee doing myself as I lack those necessary skills and time so I simply admire those who can take on such a challenge.

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Post by GTB » Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:36 pm

Peter6911:111349 wrote: The frames are worrying me a bit because of the state of the steel sheet - I've tried gentle flattening in the vice and so on - I don't know if a little gentle heating may help (?stress relieving?).
I can't get 1/16" cold rolled sheet locally and have to use hot rolled sheet for frames, so I usually have to tweak the side frame blanks after cutting out.

Heating steel will relieve any rolling stresses in the sheet and is just as likely to make any distortion worse.

Assembly may pull out slight curves, but better to get each side frame flat to start with. Cut the frame blanks out and sort them out before doing any more work on them. If you are lucky, the blanks may have less curvature than the sheet they were cut from.

I lay out the blanks with any curve along the length, then put packing under each end of a frame piece and press down in the middle. All steel is springy to some extent and has to be bent past the yield point to achieve a permanent change, so just squeezing in a vice doesn't usually make a piece dead straight.

If a frame piece is twisted, put one end in a vice, clamp something suitable to the other and use it as a lever to straighten the piece out.

Graeme

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Post by Peter6911 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:10 pm

Maple, Dwayne - thank you both for the encouragement. My skills are not that great and a proper modeller may find this a bit "hit or miss"!
Graeme - once again, thanks so much for the advice - you are becoming my mentor.

Well, I aimed to spend some time in the shop these last few days, but unfortunately my Labrador (juvenile) dog ("Watson") was the cause of much domestic disruption - unbeknown to me and my dear wife, he'd swallowed a large stone and was very ill. Several trips to the local Vet's. Fortunately, he passed it eventually and all seemed well until yesterday, when he swallowed two more. Long story short - after more Vet's visit, awaiting for that to pass (hopefully) but getting in touch with a real expert on Dog Behaviour to try and modify his love of stones.
Sorry - off topic a bit.

I was able to cut the frame blanks and blue them.
I use "Layout Blue" (I bought a tin of the stuff years ago and it lasts and lasts). One can use a jumbo/indelible felt-tip pen just as well but it takes a bit longer.
Don't confuse Layout Blue with "Engineer's Blue" - more like a blue petroleum jelly - for checking the fit of mating surfaces.
Both of these blues have very strange properties - the Layout liquid will make you high as a kite in a non ventilated area.
Engineer's blue will somehow find its way into and onto everything - climbing walls almost.

I marked out the first mainframe using a digital height gauge, having set the frame up square using a pair of angle blocks and an engineers' clamp.
Its best to do this on a truly FLAT surface.
I cannot afford a proper ground stone surface block - (TOP TIP) a large ceramic bathroom tile will do just as well.
I am using here a (so called) "Italian marble serving platter" - from Tesco's - cost less than a tenner. Its really heavy and beautifully made.
Marking out frames.jpg
Marking out frames.jpg (523.66 KiB) Viewed 8335 times
After marking out, I used an optical centre punch to place the drilling positions, with the frame flat on the green cutting mat. Traditionally, a "pricking-punch" (very fine centre punch) would first be used, then a normal fine centre punch.
Do not use an "automatic" (spring loaded) centre punch - they can cause a lot of inaccuracies and distort the work by pressing too hard.

Whilst on the subject of "Flat Surfaces" :-
A very useful "build plate" can be made from an off-cut of plate glass backed with a piece of block-board (or similar) of the same size. Sandwich a sheet of metric squared (or graph) paper between the two and tape the edges together with Gaff Tape.
Build Plate.jpg
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This plate is really useful in assembling box like structures (rolling stock/buildings) - you can check the right angles by lining the bits up against the squares before gluing finally. Before assembling the paper/glass/block sandwich, I went over the squared lines with a 6B pencil and ruler first so as to make them stand out.
Overspills of glue/cyano/paint etc. will easily be removed from the glass surface with an Xacto blade or similar.
Mine is very old and a bit the worse for wear.
I do not claim this idea as mine (I read about it many years ago somewhere) - but am just passing it along if it will help anyone in their efforts.

Having marked out and punched one mainframe as a start, it looks as though the warping of the steel is too much. I've tried flattening as you suggested Graeme, and using my largest vice jaws. (No, I did not use any heat!!!) but there is still a distinct bendy bit.
Its possible the frame cross pieces will pull it straight - we'll see.
I did however talk to that nice man at Mode Engineers Laser this morning and have ordered some bits and bobs.

I think tomorrow I'll have a go at getting the 7 cross pieces of 5mm sq. brass all cut and trued EXACTLY to length.


Best wishes

Peter
Last edited by Peter6911 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Peter6911 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:28 pm

Not been able to do much of late, due to a very sick dog (he had swallowed several stones!!!).

However, I did finish the frame spacers, using a back-stop in my milling vice to finish them all to the same length with an end mill running across the end of each spacer blank.

Next, the wheels.
The instructions in the book are very good, and there are more very good articles on wheel turning to be found on the internet. Given that (obviously) each wheel has to be identical, I was a bit nervous about this job, but with the moon and Venus in correct alignment, and the chicken entrails looking good, I felt encouraged to gave it a shot.

No prizes for being the fastest here - take it slowly, step by step and all seemed well.
I had ordered a length of 45mm dia. mild steel and cut off four slices each slightly over length for four wheel blanks.
I was not going to maim myself hack-sawing these four blanks from such thick material, but rather used a 1.5mm metal cutting chop-saw disc in my angle grinder.
Follow the instructions, and bring each disc almost to length, and turn the boss on the rear having set up each blank to run true in the lathe four jaw chuck.
I used a lathe ER32 collet to hold each boss and machine the outer face, rim and tread, plus drill and ream 1/4 in. for the axle.
Do the tread angle with the top slide set over to 3 degrees, and all seemed well.
The collet did not allow further work on the inside of the wheel rim, so I swapped the collet setup for a 1/4 inch mandrel I had in stock from an earlier project, as absolute accuracy now is not so important.
This set up was used in the three jaw chuck to finish off the profile edges of the rim with a file.
Wheel finishing.jpg
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The outer face boss and recess were then machined with a tipped (rounded) profile tool (the rim has not been profiled yet in this photo!)
Wheels.jpg
Wheels.jpg (415.84 KiB) Viewed 8335 times
Here are two (finished) wheels and one to yet to be face-profiled.

Finally, to drill and tap the inside bosses for the grub-screw.

Looking ahead, I am thinking I may have bitten off too much in having a try at the full Walschaerts valve gear version of this loco.
Looking at all of the many plain and 10ba threaded "pins" which will have to be turned for the various valve motion levers, would the slip-eccentric version be a better bet - has anybody got a view here, or practical experience of fabricating the valve gear?
I also think the single slide bar version for the cross-head looks a bit easier?

Peter
Last edited by Peter6911 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by GTB » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:46 pm

Every part finished is another step towards a running loco.

I've not built anything with slip eccentrics, but my Roundhouse loco fitted with them is a bit of a pain to operate. There's less bits, so I presume it takes less time to build.

I've built two locos with Stephenson gear and that is now my choice for an inside gear prototype. Less parts to make and it can be made more robust, as it isn't particularly visible on a finished model, even bar frame prototypes.

I've just completed a loco with valve gear based on the Eric design and had no major problems making the bits, but it was slow progress. Took me a month at my usual rate of progress, say 100 hours. The pins are fiddly, but not too bad once you get set up.

The tailstock tap and die holders shown in Brian's book were one of my first projects when I got the new lathe and mill. If you haven't got them, they make things much easier when threading various pins, bushes, nuts, etc. on the lathe. They also work well in the mill and drill press, especially the tap holder.

I'm not a great user of jigs, but to make that many valve gear pins I made a couple of simple ones. One was a sort of ring gauge with a range of holes drilled in a piece of strip, which I use to check the fit of the pins before threading. The other is a series of tapped holes in a piece of bar. I make the threaded part of the pin over length so the thread is properly formed near the shoulder, then screw it into the gauge to trim the thread to length.

My mini lathe isn't that flash at parting off steel, especially small sections like 10BA size hex. For the VG pins I turn the pin, thread it, then cut it off over length with a piercing saw. so as not to lose the setup, when they are all turned and threaded, I screw them into a tapped hole in a mandrel and turn the head to final thickness.

An alternative to shouldered screws is to turn a little bush and slip it over an ordinary hex head screw. Works the same once the screw is tightened. I used to use them in small scale, when the only machine tool I had was a Unimat SL and no dies.

Another useful gizmo I made from a drawing found online was a depth stop that fits in the bore of the headstock. Very useful for turning things like axles and spacers to length.

Like you, cutting wheel blanks from BMS bar with a hacksaw is not for this little black duck, so I dock them off with a metal cutting bandsaw.

I prefer to rough valve gear bits out with a piercing saw, then file to size. I find it quicker than monkeying around setting up to mill something that small. Same with coupling and con rods.

Hope some of that helps.

Regards,
Graeme

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Post by Peter6911 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:00 pm

Graeme, thank you for all that useful advice.

I already have tailstock tap and die holders for most threads, as you say and they are really useful.
My mill has "power" tapping function at lowest speed (90rpm) - with quick reverse buttons on the quill spider. I have found (to my cost) it works some times, but its great if you want to live dangerously!!!

Thanks for the ideas about jigs and bushes - delightfully simple - I'll give them a go.
I have made various headstock/lathe chuck back-stops over time, but rarely get to use them - this seems a good opportunity.

To be honest, I have to admit that I've given up on my first set of frames - the material was not lying true on a flat surface (thanks to the parcel people in the post), so I've gone to Model Engineers Laser for a set of parts.
I think for this exercise, I shall go for the between the frames eccentric/rocking shaft valve gear and single slide bar.
I'm used to eccentrics for the stationary (mill type) engines I've built, and far fewer pins to fiddle with.

I'm also thinking of all that drilling of rods and levers with very small diameter drill bits for Walschaerts valve gear motion. Odds are I will break a few, even taking it very slowly at highest speed with plenty of lube.

One (minor) criticism of the book text is that the author does not consistently describe the various sizes of steel/brass hex. material used for the various pins and steam fittings. He sort of mixes up imperial, metric and AF sizes - sometimes with a dimension across the flats - in the plans - very hard to follow.

Time to assemble the basic chassis and wheels now - a very kind neighbour with a beautiful garden railway has loaned me a short length of 32mm track, so hopefully it will roll without trouble.

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Post by Peter6911 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:59 pm

Well here's the finished basic frame and wheels - using the laser cut frame parts.
I have yet to "embellish" the front beam with rivets and am not sure whether to add the wooden blocks/coupling hook to the front/rear beams or indulge in centre couplings.
Frames 2.jpg
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The book makes a rather vague reference to the fact that the loco can be gauged to either 45mm or 32mm. As you can see, from the second pic. that there is a lot of space between the wheels and axle bushes in the frames when gauged to 32mm.
Frames.jpg
Frames.jpg (501.68 KiB) Viewed 8335 times

I assume that when the cranks are fitted, the axle slop will be dealt with? Should I turn up bronze spacers to centre the wheel sets anyway?

Whilst still not sure which way to proceed with the frames/valve gear, I set about making the cylinders from a length of 38mm dia. brass stock.
Brian's text is very good and easy enough to follow - machining down the round-stock in the 4 jaw chuck. I've included a photo of the initial set-up if its of any help.
Cylinders 1.jpg
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Quite a bit of brass has to be removed, and I discovered to my cost that its not a good idea to wear an open neck shirt during the proceedings (its been quite hot and humid recently) - a protective scarf around the neck would have been a good idea - the brass swarf chippings went everywhere!
I machined the single billet at one go, and then cut the two cylinder blocks from that, so that both cylinders would be the same basic size.
Cylinder finish.jpg
Cylinder finish.jpg (397.5 KiB) Viewed 8335 times

I finished off the remaining dimensions for each block in the mill using a tipped flycutter, which gives a beautiful finish.

Given that the two cylinders are "handed" its worth marking each block with felt tip pen so that "left and right" and "front and back" can be seen easily.
The text is again very useful for setting up to bore each cylinder in the 4 jaw chuck.

Here's my set up, using a "wobbler" and dial test indicator to get the block running true before centre drilling with a Slocumb bit.
set-up for cyl boring.jpg
set-up for cyl boring.jpg (450.14 KiB) Viewed 8335 times
Overall, not very interesting work, but still, a little bit of progress.
Last edited by Peter6911 on Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by GTB » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:59 pm

Peter6911:111840 wrote: I assume that when the cranks are fitted, the axle slop will be dealt with? Should I turn up  bronze spacers to centre the wheel sets anyway?
The axle sideplay is designed to be controlled by the flycranks. You could fit spacers for 32mm, but it removes the option of changing the gauge if the need arises.

Peter6911:111840 wrote:Overall, not very interesting work, but still, a little bit of progress.
Looks like more than a just little bit of progress...... ;)

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: Loco Build based on "Eric"

Post by Peter6911 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:44 pm

Over 2 years since my last post - seems an awful long time.

A bit of background as to why the gap :-
Unfortunately, soon after my last post I suffered a number of heart attacks over a three day period - Doctor's thought it was acid reflux!!!! Eventually got to hospital but no cardiac beds available for three weeks!.
I finally got quadruple by-pass surgery (at Hammersmith hospital - a long way from Exeter) - went very wrong (three grafts soon failed) - several stents tried to be fitted afterwards but they failed too - no luck - doctors agree the surgery laced me up too tight and nothing can be done - like having an elephant sitting on ones's chest all the time.

Finally I feel strong enough to get back to my little workshop and get back to trying to build Eric. Taking it slow - a bit at a time.

Since my last post, I finished the chassis frames, turned up the wheels/axles and made the side rods/bushings.
For those who may be interested in wheel quartering, I had a bit of a do trying to quarter the cranks.
Take it from me, the quartering "jig" outlined in the book will drive you insane when trying to use it.
There is a fair bit of stuff on the internet about wheel quartering, but not much specific to a 4 coupled outside frame loco.
However, there was a very good tip linked from the Model Engineer's website - namely fit one crank to each axle with compound.
Fit a second crank to one of the axles (not forgetting wheels etc!) at 90 degrees - either by eye or using centres in the lathe.
The fourth crank - the deal breaker (or not) - fit by eye with the side rod also on the pins, with a dab of setting compound and then roll the chassis backwards and forwards for a bit - the quartering will take care of itself (theoretically)!
Well, I tried it and it sort of worked pretty well - but there was one point per revolution where the wheels bind ever so slightly. By this time, the compound had "gone off" and I did not want to go to the trouble of hairdrying/heating to break the seal.
Now the coupling rod bushes - per the plan - are to "ream 1/8th inch" in brass. I had previously done this most carefully. What I needed was a tiny bit of slop. So I re-drilled the bushes to 3.3mm (fortunately I have a set of 0.1mm metrics) and presto - super smooth running chassis. Then cross drill the cranks and fit roll-pins.

The quartering jig I had made earlier is in the scrap bin.

What has happened to photographs/third party hosting on Photobucket - I have not yet read up on this, but all of my photos seem to have gone - is this an obvious question? (I have not been to Photobucket for two years either).

I have not been on here for over two years. No - not in prison, although lying in bed, then sitting on my bum for that time is rather boring, although I read an awful lot, so apologies if this question about photos sounds a bit silly.

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Re: Loco Build based on "Eric"

Post by philipy » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:21 pm

Welcome back, in every sense!
Sorry to hear of your health problems, just take it easy.

As for Photobucket, they recently, and with almost no warning slapped a charge on for exceeding a storage size limit. AFAIK your photos will still be there but held to ransom, basically.
Philip

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Re: Loco Build based on "Eric"

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:51 pm

Welcome, you clearly have been through a lot by the sounds of it!

Photobucket no longer allow you to share your pictures with 3rd party websites unless you pay a fee. The pictures you have hosted with them will still be there.

Uploading photos to the forum now is much easier than before (you may have noticed we are no longer with myfreeforum).

If you need help please PM me.

Tom

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Re: Loco Build based on "Eric"

Post by Big Jim » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:55 pm

Nice to see you back and active Peter, sorry to hear about your misfortunes.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

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Re: Loco Build based on "Eric"

Post by Peter6911 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:15 pm

Philipy, Tom and Jim - many thanks for the kind words and encouragement.

Just starting on the cylinder covers and valve chests.

I'll post some pics. hopefully when I've sorted out how to do it without using Photobucket.

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Re: Loco Build based on "Eric"

Post by philipy » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:12 pm

Peter6911 wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:15 pm
I'll post some pics. hopefully when I've sorted out how to do it without using Photobucket.
Its basically very easy, simply drag and drop from your computer onto your post and then attach it using the tab at the bottom of the post window, then 'submit' once you've finished
Philip

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