First Ever Garden Railway

What is your latest project?
User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Andrew » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:43 pm

Hello again!

Here's the sort of thing I (and maybe others) had in mind, where a low wall buys you enough flat space in front of it to get a loop in - although that's going to need to be about 6 feet, to get a pretty minimum (2'6" radius) loop, plus some clearance, and you will lose lawn...

Cunning plan.jpg
Cunning plan.jpg (379.16 KiB) Viewed 3620 times



Hope that makes sense?!

You can't beat a little lunchtime layout planning... Luckily for me, work is a Medical Library, where we lend the students crayons to colour in pictures of the digestive system or whatever. At least I think that's what they do with 'em???

Cheers,

Andrew

PS I needed to work on my perspective a little more, that "flat" loop still looks like it's sloping up the garden!

ashover
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:50 pm

Cheers Andrew, this is brilliant! Really appreciated. You really brought it to life.

You should become a children's book illustrator! Nice little side hustle for your lunch breaks!
Nicholas J

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by philipy » Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:13 pm

ashover wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:51 am I see this one is straight on top of the wall - presumably with some sort of track bed though?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLC89SrSBwM (9 mins)
It looks to me as though they have spread a layer of mortar on the top of the wall stones, presumably to get it level, and then simply 'glued' ballast over it. Presumably ( again) the track is screwed down to the mortar bed and the glued ballast locks it in place.
It woudl be quite feasible for you to do the same thing with the retaining wall at the bottom of your lawn.
Philip

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by GTB » Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:55 pm

I'll provide the dissenting opinion on building garden railway support structure............ ;)

The TVT construction saga is in this thread. It starts with turnout and track construction, so you need to go to page 3 which is where the track support construction starts.

https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11871

My interest in garden railways is mostly just building model trains, operation and scenery are not my thing. This track was basically built as a test track and a place to watch trains running. As the saying goes, 'your mileage may vary'.......

My block slopes down from the back boundary towards the street and the track is built on a raised area which has a fall across the area the track is built. The supports are about 6" high at the back and about 18" high at the retaining wall. The track height is about 4' above the level of the path around the house, which makes it a convenient working height for me, but is closer to eye level for some visitors.

I live in a declared termite area on the fringe of the Melbourne metropolitan area, so the climate is wet and wooden support posts in the ground were not really a good idea. When I priced out the cost of materials for the support structure, wood was going to cost more than suitable galvanised steel sections, so material selection was a no-brainer. The support structure and deck that I used will easily support my weight, even though it looks spindly, but it is lightweight, weatherproof and It doesn't rot, warp, or attract termites.

Regards,
Graeme

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:08 pm

philipy wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:13 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLC89SrSBwM (9 mins)
That is a perfect example of what can be achieved in sloping ground. Some negotiation may be required dependant on what other users may require of the space, but if it is shared then you might have a section to call your own? At the moment it appears to be mainly grass, so the railway would certainly add to the decorative aspect of the garden.
The 'retaining wall' would also be an attractive area to display planting, as well as being a support to higher ground....
IMG_2918.JPG
IMG_2918.JPG (212.22 KiB) Viewed 3601 times

IMG_5019.JPG
IMG_5019.JPG (182.32 KiB) Viewed 3601 times
This video of my line shows how the stone performs that duty and adds to the enhancement of the garden....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHGDJmKpnIQ
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

ashover
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:42 pm

Thanks Graeme! Checked out the link. Amazing stuff. But beyond my capabilities at the moment, for sure :)

Thanks Peter for the insights- really beautiful line.

And I love Peckforton Rik. Both are exactly what I'd like to get to eventually.
Nicholas J

ashover
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:33 pm

Hi everyone,

Quick update on this...

Using Andrew's very solid drawing I was finally able to conceptualise the station area, loop, and siding. I'm going to flatten the ground there and go with the retaining wall behind.

But still gradients are not my friend...

In the middle, there are the steps.

I can:

1) Get a removable bridge - which I know nothing about. Would that just slot into place each time?
2) Go around the steps - but this involves a climb at 8.6% or 1:11.5 gradient. I'm guessing that's too steep? And if descent would be an issue, potentially a train is descending into a tight turn, close to what amounts to a cliff edge (wall)... so I'm guessing this isn't the best idea.

It's only 46" and a rise of 4" ...looks puny but perhaps not so at 16mm scale!

Thoughts welcome!
Attachments
IMG_6638.jpeg
IMG_6638.jpeg (8.57 MiB) Viewed 3462 times
Nicholas J

Phil.P
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:28 pm
Location: Staffs. UK

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Phil.P » Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:00 pm

Keep it 'flat'..
I will leave it to others, to show engineering solutions bridging gaps.

If you really have to have a gradient, then aim for 1:40 to 1:50..
You can get away with up-to 1:24,but that is going to put a strain on things, and would need to be a straight approach and slope. - Add a curve on/into a gradient, and it will really cause problems.

Phil.P

User avatar
GAP
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
Contact:

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by GAP » Tue Feb 21, 2023 9:23 pm

ashover wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:52 am
SimonWood wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:16 pm That’s a great garden with a lot of potential! Whatever you do is going to look great in it, I think.

That said, I’d be inclined to agree with Peter. The wall is really just at a perfect height, almost made for the purpose, dog-boning the ends will give you good running options, and if you don’t want a removable bridge I would have thought you could push the railway back to the top of the steps at that point to cross on the level.
Thanks Simon. I think Peter is right.

I think I will loop into the grass rather than onto the paved area Phil.

A couple more questions:

For a removable bridge - are these easy to attach/detach? I'm guessing I wouldn't use rail joiners?

For the wall - do you think I should run on the wall itself, on top of felt-covered wood - or alongside the wall? In theory I could create a gravel bed alongside the wall or use boards on top of log roll- something like that?

Thanks again everyone!
Regarding bridging gaps I did find a lift out bridge more of an inconvenience as compared to a lift up bridge.
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... ge-is.html
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -rail.html

To align tracks on both a removable bridge and a lift up one I used a version of these (not made anymore) they work very well.
https://www.onlytrains.com/model/trains/SJ40401.html,

These people may be able to get them for you "Garden Railways Limited"
https://www.gardenrailways.co.uk/garden ... lamps.html

I am now using them on my lift up bridge, bottom picture shows them in place.
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... ridge.html
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by philipy » Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:22 am

I've had no real problems with a lift out bridge, apart from the fact that the raised timber approaches tend to swell when they get wet and lifting gets a bit fraught sometimes! The secret is to have very rigid fixings and some sort of locating pin/hole arrangement which can't moved in relation to each other. 16mm track/wheel standards are crude enough that it can cope with minor misalignments.
Philip

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:17 pm

There may be space for the track to remain level and deviate around the steps in a cutting, or even a tunnel if the top step is raised?
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

ashover
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:03 pm

Peter Butler wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:17 pm There may be space for the track to remain level and deviate around the steps in a cutting, or even a tunnel if the top step is raised?
Would need to be a tunnel under the top step- but that's very deep. I'm going to proceed with the bridge :thumbright:
Nicholas J

ashover
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:05 pm

Thanks for the responses everyone, and for the useful links, Graeme- much obliged.

I'll go with the bridge idea. That seems the most straightforward- literally.
Nicholas J

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Andrew » Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:31 pm

Sounds like a plan!

You can always start simple, with a plank braced with 2x1, and then create something more elaborate later, when you've got things up and running...

Cheers,

Andrew

User avatar
Old Man Aaron
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD, Australia

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Old Man Aaron » Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:32 am

You won't go wrong with these guys advising ya! Looking forward to seeing your line unfold. :D
Regards,
Aaron - Scum Class Works

ashover
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:37 am

Last qu for a bit ... hopefully... the track bed will be ballast - the track won't be fastened down except on the bridge.

For the 'dogbone' loop - per the diagram, would you suggest going with flexible track and bending it to shape, or pre-made curved sections for at least some of it?

I do want it to be quite tight - to save space, but apprehensive - if I bend, presumably it stays bent without needing to be fixed down?

Cheers everyone!
Nicholas J

ashover
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:01 am

Update: we have track!

Most of the straights anyway. I need a lot of set-track curves and points… 6 in total.

Coming from the 00 world…. I can’t believe the cost of points. It’s looking like £450 just in those?

If anyone has any they’d like to offload I’d certainly appreciate being able to shave the cost a bit!
Attachments
8B282E5A-9681-4B7E-87E9-0809F443AE94.jpeg
8B282E5A-9681-4B7E-87E9-0809F443AE94.jpeg (6.98 MiB) Viewed 3209 times
Nicholas J

User avatar
GAP
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
Contact:

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by GAP » Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:09 am

ashover wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:01 am Update: we have track!

Most of the straights anyway. I need a lot of set-track curves and points… 6 in total.

Coming from the 00 world…. I can’t believe the cost of points. It’s looking like £450 just in those?

If anyone has any they’d like to offload I’d certainly appreciate being able to shave the cost a bit!
How adept are you at cutting/grinding/soldering brass.

If it's no problem then I have some plans to make your own points.

I do not use set track I use flexible track because it allows me to make curves of any size radius.
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html

ashover
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:50 pm

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:41 am

Thanks Graeme - I’d certainly be open to learning. I do have a soldering iron at least!
Nicholas J

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by philipy » Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:53 am

Agree with Graeme on both counts, plus its cheaper to buy flexitrack than set track and cheaper ( and more satisfying) to build your own pointwork.
Building points is nowhere near as difficult as some folks make it out to be, just get some track gauges and go steady and don't expect to do it in a couple of hours.
Philip

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests