First Ever Garden Railway

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ashover
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First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:00 pm

Hello everyone. Glad to be here!

I’m slowly consuming information as I finally embark on a project to construct a 16mm/Narrow gauge line.

I wonder if there’s any ‘how to’ guides that stand out in particular that someone could point me towards?

However here is my initial plan:

The lawn slopes down towards the house - so I plan to run it on a raised platform- higher in places where it slopes down. You can see what I mean in the pic.

I planned to use fence posts, and lay timber on top.

I wasn’t sure whether to use the timber as a kind of gutter, and fill it with gravel, then lay the track on that (with drain holes). Or, just flat timber or plywood with felt on top.

I only plan for one line, and so the timber can ve just slightly wider than the line. So I don’t think I need anything complex? Just fence posts with wood on top?

Anyway, any input welcome. I thought I’m starting the thread I could also post updates and stay on target. Thanks!
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by philipy » Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:26 pm

Hi and welcome.

Plenty of info on the forum to answer exactly the questions you are asking.

I'd suggest looking through Peter Butler's epic thread " Time to build a railway, but where?"
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6537

and also Rik's Peckforton blog : https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/p/contents.html

Then try the forum search, which is not always very user friendly, but shoudl enable you to find info.
Finally, don't be afraid to start a new thread and ask specific questions, somebody is bound to have an answer.

My own view is that of the options you are considering, felt covered board is the best choice (thats mostly what I've used), but make sure the timber is well treated first. Deck boards are a fair choice, but not ply, it will get wet and delaminate sooner or later. Similarly, don't create a timber channel filled with gravel, it's asking for rot. Don't scrimp on the width of the boards though, sooner or later you will get unexpected derailments and a wider board gives you at least a small chance of avoiding a death plunge to the floor!
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:41 pm

That is a beautiful wall and magnificent back-drop for your railway. It also looks like quite an incline to overcome. The idea of using posts should work there and if you need just the width of a single line, I would use 'gravel boards', treated softwood, with felt on top. 2" x 1" battens to support boards between posts is strongly recommended. You mention 'one line' which I take to mean a single track in a straight line? If you need to add to this it can be extended quite easily.
Anyway, welcome to the Forum; please keep us updated and show progress and your stock along the way.
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:08 am

Thanks for your answers and welcome Philip and Peter. Appreciate the tips very much. Especially re. potential derailments!
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ge_rik » Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:25 am

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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ge_rik » Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:34 am

ashover wrote: Sun Feb 12, 2023 7:00 pm The lawn slopes down towards the house - so I plan to run it on a raised platform- higher in places where it slopes down. You can see what I mean in the pic.

I planned to use fence posts, and lay timber on top.

I wasn’t sure whether to use the timber as a kind of gutter, and fill it with gravel, then lay the track on that (with drain holes). Or, just flat timber or plywood with felt on top.

I only plan for one line, and so the timber can ve just slightly wider than the line. So I don’t think I need anything complex? Just fence posts with wood on top?

Anyway, any input welcome. I thought I’m starting the thread I could also post updates and stay on target. Thanks!
Here's how I did my raised section on timber supports - 6" wide tanalised fence rails on posts
https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... nsion.html

.... but there are other ways of doing it.

Personally, I would avoid plywood. My only experience was that so-called 'exterior' ply isn't particularly weatherproof, even when painted with wood preservative.

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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Phil.P » Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:27 pm

Don't rule-out using 'Met-Post' spikes, to keep the bottom of your posts out of damp soil. - This could be an easier option, but does depend on your ground-conditions.

Another option, is to use scaffold poles, as the uprights. - These will definitely outlast almost anything else!
I have also seen square plastic pipe, rainwater-type, used.. If you are worried about strength, you can fill it with a weak, dry-mix of cement.

Another alternative for the road-bed, is composite decking boards. - Plastics, so you need to allow for expansion.
Again, 2x1 (or a single 3x1) on edge below it, should stop it sagging too much.
It is quite expensive (but then so are garden railways!) but you do not need to cover it with roofing felt, except for effect.

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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:43 pm

Thanks for chiming-in Rik, and thanks Philip again.

I did some measuring this afternoon;

From the top end of the garden to the house, the most severe gradient, if it starts at about 3" above ground level in the back right corner, by the time it reaches the house it's at 30"/2.5ft.

Run length = 20ft
Rise length = 2.5ft
20/2.5 = 1:8 gradient - I think that's right?

So, too steep to run close to the ground, for sure!

(Running right to left along the hedge at the top end of the garden, it reaches 33" on the left side- so the garden slopes down from right to left as well as from back to front. But this is a more gentle gradient).

This is going to be a bit of a job to avoid it looking completely unsightly and having no line side scenery!

The alternative is to run it along the wall per the picture and either build some sort of removable bridge over the steps, or loop around them, with a reversing loop at each end.

Hmm!
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by philipy » Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:54 pm

Your description of your potential line sounds very very similar to mine, except that mine slopes down from the house not up. but mine is also about 3ft above ground level at the bottom and it also slopes down from right to left.
Sooo, when it comes to disguising a raised trackbed on stilts, Lonicera Nitida is your friend. Easily available from garden centres, fairly fast growing ( needs a quick haircut a couple of times a year to keep it in trim ), has small leaves and once established easily roots from cuttings. I just grabbed this off ebay as a f'rinstance :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165728879271 ... R87wj7vJYQ
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:16 pm

That's a good point; that could work. It's a shame I can't get it close to ground level though. There was a perfect little bit of rock just shouting out to be 'the Quarry'!

My problem is I'm still going to end up with a daft-looking platform - by the time you take the wall into account near the house, it'll look like it's about 6ft off the ground :)

I'm thinking running along the wall, either on it, or beside it might be the duller, but easier option.
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Phil.P » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:35 pm

Having the railway near the house 3-foot plus above your paved area, is no bad thing..

Being able to stand, and work comfortably, when firing a live-steam model is well worth it..

You can 'hide' the raised line with Lonicera (even privet, at a push) or other shrub-like plants..
Lonicera can be allowed to grow up behind the railway, and trimmed to represent the rolling hills of our green and pleasant land.
Once you get near ground-level, you can build your industrial dark, satanic Mills!


You can make the steaming up area, as plain or fancy as you like.
A few low-relief buildings along the wall.. Some with illumination, would make it a nice feature.

Enjoy!
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:43 pm

Thanks Phil.

Sounds like Lonicera is the modeller's best friend.

I'll have to ponder on this. Enclosed 'advanced 3d model' of the proposed section :?
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:56 pm

I think you are missing an opportunity to take advantage of the level area of the garden... the low wall. If you bring the railway nearer to the house, possibly with a loop at either end on your paved area, (which could be removable) you could cut out a section of lawn and build a retaining wall behind the railway. This will give a raised line for easy access to live stream locos and a pleasant scenic view from the house. Low profile structures can be used as well as planting to soften the appearance while still retaining the majority of the lawned area.
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by SimonWood » Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:16 pm

That’s a great garden with a lot of potential! Whatever you do is going to look great in it, I think.

That said, I’d be inclined to agree with Peter. The wall is really just at a perfect height, almost made for the purpose, dog-boning the ends will give you good running options, and if you don’t want a removable bridge I would have thought you could push the railway back to the top of the steps at that point to cross on the level.

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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Phil.P » Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:20 pm

As an alternative to the loop coming out onto the paved area, you could cut into the lawn, for one loop.

A retaining wall (rockery) would make a nice backdrop.

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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:52 am

SimonWood wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:16 pm That’s a great garden with a lot of potential! Whatever you do is going to look great in it, I think.

That said, I’d be inclined to agree with Peter. The wall is really just at a perfect height, almost made for the purpose, dog-boning the ends will give you good running options, and if you don’t want a removable bridge I would have thought you could push the railway back to the top of the steps at that point to cross on the level.
Thanks Simon. I think Peter is right.

I think I will loop into the grass rather than onto the paved area Phil.

A couple more questions:

For a removable bridge - are these easy to attach/detach? I'm guessing I wouldn't use rail joiners?

For the wall - do you think I should run on the wall itself, on top of felt-covered wood - or alongside the wall? In theory I could create a gravel bed alongside the wall or use boards on top of log roll- something like that?

Thanks again everyone!
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ge_rik » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:54 am

If I interpret the photos correctly, the left side of the lawn is level with the wall while the right hand corner rises up. If that's the case, you could compromise by raising the track 18" above the wall and then create a cutting into the hill on the right. The spoil could then be used to create a raised bed on the left of the lawn.

Of course, if you were feeling really brave, you could re-landscape the whole garden by levelling the lawn completely and creating raised beds around the perimeter. :shock: I had a similar though not quite so steep problem with my lawn rising away from the house. I now have raised beds for most of the line. These before and after photos give a feel for what I did.

https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... d-now.html

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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by Andrew » Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:02 am

Depending on how wide it is, that wall with the daffs on could make a good loco steaming siding...

I think the retaining wall (quarry face?) idea is a good one - might depend on what other users of the garden think, I suspect...

Happy building!

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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:43 am

Andrew wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:02 am Depending on how wide it is, that wall with the daffs on could make a good loco steaming siding...

I think the retaining wall (quarry face?) idea is a good one - might depend on what other users of the garden think, I suspect...

Happy building!

Andrew.
That's a great idea! Or goods yard.

Attached the idea for the layout.

Sorry if I'm being a bit thick, I'm just not getting the retaining wall ideas. Would that be for the railway to run 'on' or would this just be a backdrop?

Would you run on the wall, or beside it?

For speed and other reasons, I'm looking to leave the lawn alone, really.
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Re: First Ever Garden Railway

Post by ashover » Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:51 am

I see this one is straight on top of the wall - presumably with some sort of track bed though?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLC89SrSBwM (9 mins)
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