Southwold stock

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FWLR
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Re: Southwold stock

Post by FWLR » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:19 am

Mmmmmm, who said I was trying to be knowledgeable. Shantie, sea shanty, who cares , I don't. That's my own opinion.

I am from Lancashire, where there are quite a few Morris Dancers, but I don't have to like them. :roll:
By they way, Fleetwood, which was a thriving fishing town at one time, had some very good Morris Dancers and I do admire their skills, my own two step-daughters are very successful Morris Dancers in the female version, if you want to call it that. The youngest one has won many medals for being the top lead dancer, so I do know a little bit about group dancing. I myself have won a few dance competitions in my younger days in modern dance. I was a mean Northern Soul dancer also.... :lol: :lol:

Please don't put capitals on words. It looks like you are shouting and telling someone off... :thumbright:

This is a friendly forum and I did say I liked all types of music. :thumbright: :thumbright:

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by FWLR » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:21 am

Phil.P wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:38 pm
invicta280 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:06 pm Another folk enthusiast here, who often attends the Rochester Sweeps Festival. There seems to be a close harmony between rail enthusiasts, real ale drinking, morris dancers and canal boaters.
OK...

Who has a video of ;
Real Ale drinking Morris Men, dancing on a Narrow Boat roof?
:thumbleft: :lol:
I don't.... :lol :lol :lol :lol

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by ge_rik » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:38 am

Stephen Bazire wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:42 pm Which side is that Rik? I've danced and played with Bath City, Great Western, Bristol and Kemp's Men but not danced for a year or so (I'm the non-hatted box player in this clip <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4NiSsUdptM> on a trip back to Bristol). And that is NOT a sea shanty! :D They're shanties, not sea shanties (a tip if you're trying to appear knowledgeable but if you want to wind up an expert call them sea shanties. Works a treat).
Yes, the vans did lengthen but years later than needed. The SR only had these two vans for carrying anything needing protection, which caused a lot of problems with holidaymakers and their suitcases which blocked up the coaches. If you weren't aware, one of the vans is the only surviving piece of SR stock, currently at the East Anglian Transport Museam near Lowestoft. The Southwold Railway Trust also made a replica of the shorter van, currently on blocks at Wenhaston station.
There was at least one 3-plank truck with flat ends. It seems to have been used a lot (but never 2 at the same time so probably only one) but with the extensive use of tarpaulins it's hard to tell much, even its number. Anyone any idea how to do 16mm tarpaulins?
Cheers
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I think our side was just learning Trunkles when I left, so I've never danced that one in public. I gave up before the days of smart phones so there's hardly any video of me dancing (thank goodness :lol: ).

I've not (yet) visited the transport museum in Lowestoft. I've seen photos of the surviving van which I think was used as a shed on the allotments in Southwold for quite a few years. What a shame none of the coach bodies survived. I suppose they'd have been too susceptible to the weather.

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by ge_rik » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:57 am

FWLR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:19 am Mmmmmm, who said I was trying to be knowledgeable. Shantie, sea shanty, who cares , I don't. That's my own opinion.

I am from Lancashire, where there are quite a few Morris Dancers, but I don't have to like them. :roll:
By they way, Fleetwood, which was a thriving fishing town at one time, had some very good Morris Dancers and I do admire their skills, my own two step-daughters are very successful Morris Dancers in the female version, if you want to call it that. The youngest one has won many medals for being the top lead dancer, so I do know a little bit about group dancing. I myself have won a few dance competitions in my younger days in modern dance. I was a mean Northern Soul dancer also.... :lol: :lol:

Please don't put capitals on words. It looks like you are shouting and telling someone off... :thumbright:

This is a friendly forum and I did say I liked all types of music. :thumbright: :thumbright:
I shouldn't worry, Rod. We folkies sometimes get a bit touchy about people's attitudes towards the tradition. Unlike Ireland and most other countries around the world who celebrate their roots music, in England folk music is often looked upon with disdain by the general public which is a pity because we have some wonderful tunes and songs which most people never have the chance to hear.

Similarly, there are all sorts of folk dancing traditions across the country. The tradition in Lancashire is for clog dancing but there's also rapper sword dancing which I find absolutely fascinating. I particularly remember one rapper sword side (Morris dance teams are called sides, but I don't know why) which mostly comprised young blokes. Rapper swords have handles at both ends (I think they were used for getting the grime off the backs of pit ponies) Rapper dancers weave in and out in complex moves and end up plaiting the swords into interwoven stars. What impressed me was that in one dance, they unplaited the star by a couple of dancers having to perform backwards somersaults without letting go of their swords.

My wife loves opera, my brother loves jazz and classical choral singing - none of which I particularly like. Neither of them likes folk music. Each to their own, I suppose.

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by Andrew » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:54 am

FWLR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:19 am Mmmmmm, who said I was trying to be knowledgeable.
I don't think anyone did, Rod - Steve was joking that, just like us railway enthusiasts, traditional music fans can get easily (and amusingly!) annoyed by the phrases that non-enthusiasts use to describe their hobby. Actually, I've reached a compromise on "train station" with my family - anywhere unstaffed (like our local station) I don't object when they use that term, but anywhere with a little more dignity (like Temple Meads!!!) is definitely a Railway Station...
FWLR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:19 am I was a mean Northern Soul dancer also....
Now THAT I'd like to see - definitely no smart phone footage of that, alas! Were you a regular at the Wigan Casino, Rod?

Back to the Southwold, again, thanks for the van info - I must have been wondering about that for about 20 years. Not all the time, I should add...

All the best,

Andrew.

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by ge_rik » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:30 am

My biggest bugbear is people, who should know better, referring to a locomotive as a train ..... :roll: :dontknow:

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by Andrew » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:24 am

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:30 am My biggest bugbear is people, who should know better, referring to a locomotive as a train ..... :roll: :dontknow:
And having to hold your tongue when the engine in question is running light - at which point I think, technically, it is a train...

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by ge_rik » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:54 am

Andrew wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:24 am
ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:30 am My biggest bugbear is people, who should know better, referring to a locomotive as a train ..... :roll: :dontknow:
And having to hold your tongue when the engine in question is running light - at which point I think, technically, it is a train...
Now that's an interesting conundrum ..... Hmmmm.... I see a "train" as something which follows behind - hence the train on a bridal gown. So, I'd refer to something as a locomotive and its train of trucks or carriages. This notion of a light engine being regarded as a "train" will completely overthrow this conception ....

Can I cope?

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by Andrew » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:00 pm

It's from a signalling perspective, I think?

T'other Andrew can probably enlighten us...

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by philipy » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:10 pm

I always think of an engine running light as a "light loco"... therefore it's a 'loco' as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, in this day and age of ubiquitous multiple unit passenger trains, diesel or electric, the concept of a separate engine and train is pretty odd to anyone less than about 50 years old.
Philip

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:39 pm

May I present exhibits 'A' and 'B' to the court?.......
trains cross 1.jpg
trains cross 1.jpg (57.53 KiB) Viewed 4347 times
crossing2.jpg
crossing2.jpg (12.23 KiB) Viewed 4347 times
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by ge_rik » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:17 pm

Peter Butler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:39 pm May I present exhibits 'A' and 'B' to the court?.......

trains cross 1.jpg
crossing2.jpg
Circumstantial at the very least .... :? :lol:

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by Jimmyb » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:01 pm

FWLR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:19 am Please don't put capitals on words. It looks like you are shouting and telling someone off... :thumbright:
Not sure who this is aimed at, but upper case letters to start words could be correct, and if you are trying to emphasis a specific word, again upper case letters could be considered correct, though personally I go for italics and/or bold. I would agree whole posts or even complete sentences in upper case letters is considered poor etiquette, but it maybe that the person is SHOUTING :D

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by Soar Valley Light » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:43 pm

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:17 pm
Peter Butler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:39 pm May I present exhibits 'A' and 'B' to the court?.......

trains cross 1.jpg
crossing2.jpg
Circumstantial at the very least .... :? :lol:

Rik
Who would have thought this topic would end up going down this particular rabbit hole!

Rule 16 of the dear old Railway Clearing-house Rules (used by almost every company from the turn of the 1900's up to 1972) clearly defines that the term 'train' includes a 'light engine'. the Rules and Regulations still require a light engine to carry a taillamp to confirm it is complete (!) and if the engine does not pass the box the fireman or secondman is charged with the duty of confirming to the signalman that the engine has arrived 'complete with tail lamp'. Pedantic insistence upon this has caused many arguments over the years, it becomes slightly more relevant when there are two or more engines in steam tied together though. (An engine hauling dead engines up to the authorised maximum of four IS considered to be a train and is signalled accordingly as a freight).

Just to make things interesting, for the purposes of examining the line to ascertain if it is safe (please note my best Rule Book English being given an airing!) an empty multiple unit train may be considered a light locomotive!

Please note that the foregoing is based upon the Rules and Regulations up to the early 1980's, goodness knows what the modern version says, the railway world is a very different place these days and I'm very thankful to be nearing the end of my daily involvement with this aspect of it.

Of course, light railways in general and narrow gauge railways in particular had a tendency to be laws unto themselves. Most fell into the category of 'items of plant' little different to the quarry crusher or the saw mill they serviced. Only a few were in the 'big boys league' of fully fledged railways, and whilst some, like the Lynton, did things 'properly', others were far freer in their interpretation of the Rules (yes Cambletown & Machrihanish, I'm looking at you!). Our own railways are what we want them to be and are operated in the way in which we choose to operate them. None of us are about to get a visit from the 'Man from the Min' - although watch out for Inspector Isles (where has he got to by the way?). So, we can write our own Rule books if we choose, or dispense with such formalities altogether. Those who aim for some semblance of prototypical operation or are modelling a particular prototype may choose to follow practises from historical record, but even then, they don't have to be slavish in following them. That's one of the real joys of this hobby of ours.

I shall now quietly remove my anorak and the bells from around my ankles, step down from my narrow boat roof and go and sit in the corner to read my Rule Book over a pint of beer!

CFLR Andrew
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Re: Southwold stock

Post by philipy » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:12 am

Andrew, Thanks for enlightening us all on the subject of trains and taillamps!
Soar Valley Light wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:43 pm None of us are about to get a visit from the 'Man from the Min' - although watch out for Inspector Isles (where has he got to by the way?).
Well actually Mr Isles went missing in action several years ago and after an exhaustive recruitment process we were fortunate to secure the services of Mr I. N Spectre to replace him. https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... re#p145029
Mr Spectre did a tour of many lines back in 2019/20 but then unfortunately got caught up by Covid and other matters and is currently recuperating I believe. We expect him to resume his duties probably when the weather improves somewhat.
Having said that, he is almost at the end of his booked list of visits, so if anyone else wants an inspection please let me know.
Philip

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by ge_rik » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:30 am

Fascinating stuff, thanks Andrew. I'll satisfy myself that a light engine leaves a train of smoke and steam behind it. I'll have to draw up a rule book for the PLR, but it'll probably be based heavily on the Southwold rule book (if I can lay hands on it) as the PLR, like the SR does not have continuous braking.....

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by FWLR » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:56 am

Andrew wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:54 am
FWLR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:19 am I was a mean Northern Soul dancer also....
Now THAT I'd like to see - definitely no smart phone footage of that, alas! Were you a regular at the Wigan Casino, Rod?

Andrew.

I was Andrew, plus "The Torch" in Stoke and also Blackpool "Mecca"

It was every alternate Saturday for Stoke and Blackpool. The Mecca stayed open until they closed it in the Eighties.
The actual name of were we danced was called "The Highland Room"...No we didn't do the highland fling... :lol :lol :lol :lol
Jimmyb wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:01 pm
FWLR wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:19 am Please don't put capitals on words. It looks like you are shouting and telling someone off... :thumbright:
Not sure who this is aimed at, but upper case letters to start words could be correct, and if you are trying to emphasis a specific word, again upper case letters could be considered correct, though personally I go for italics and/or bold. I would agree whole posts or even complete sentences in upper case letters is considered poor etiquette, but it maybe that the person is SHOUTING :D
It was aimed at the person who said
"that is NOT a sea shanty! :D They're shanties, not sea shanties (a tip if you're trying to appear knowledgeable but if you want to wind up an expert..."
Mark Twain defined an expert as "an ordinary fellow from another town".
Danish scientist and Nobel laureate Niels Bohr defined an expert as "A person that has made every possible mistake within his or her field."

What the Danish scientist must mean for me then is, I have loads of expertise in many fields, but a master of none... :dontknow:
That can go for people who call themselves experts also.....

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by FWLR » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:02 am

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:30 am My biggest bugbear is people, who should know better, referring to a locomotive as a train ..... :roll: :dontknow:

Rik
Isn't a train, a locomotive with wagons or coaches being pulled or pushed along a railway track.....

I don't know because I am not an expert and my knowledge of all things railway related is very limited, as most members know.... :roll: :lol :lol.. Now I am joking.

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by ge_rik » Sun May 16, 2021 1:16 pm

Finally, I have got around to printing and assembling one of the Southwold's 6-wheel open wagons. It's taken a while as I was experimenting with a different way of getting the chassis to articulate and my first couple of attempts were less than satisfactory. Touch wood, this one seems to reliably negotiate the ups and downs and tight curves of the PLR so I am in the process of tweaking the original drawings to take account of the changes of design.

I'll probably construct just one more (to check the new design works) as I'm rapidly running out of storage space on the PLR .....

Image
Image

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Re: Southwold stock

Post by -steves- » Sun May 16, 2021 2:30 pm

Looks exceptional Rik, I love the light weathering, so it looks like it's still in use rather than rotting away in some siding, just right IMHO :thumbup: Great job on sorting out that articulating part, rather you than me, lol :D
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