Wooden coal cart - advice needed

[philipy]

Looks really good to me Rik, but then again, I know nowt!

[gregh]

very, VERY nice.
Talk about a Jack of all trades - you are a Rik of all trades

[LNR]

Lovely job Rik, and a great subject. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I have a soft spot for horse drawn vehicles.
Could I make one small point, the chain (trace) leading from the hame hook on the collar, should lead back to the eye at the base of the shafts to the left of the horse looking at the picture. It is what actually pulls the cart along. I do hope this is seen as a constructive criticism.
Grant.

[Peter Butler]

Lovely job Rik, and a great subject. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I have a soft spot for horse drawn vehicles.

It looks just right (as far as I know!) and will fit in with your railway period perfectly.
As Grant points out, there is a fondness for traditional horse drawn vehicles and a friend of mine is trying to trace many area specific types to reproduce in model form, as many have been left in barns to rot. They are built to approx. 1in/ft. scale and he uses a 1mm (Japanese) wood chisel to create perfect mortise and tenon joints, just as the original. They are definitely Museum quality.
I have known him for some time and saw him yesterday with his latest creation, which is still under construction..... it takes months (sometimes longer) to build as he is clearly a perfectionist, even using the same timber types as the original.....

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Naturally they are all Welsh carts!

[LNR]

I've said it before, there is much talent lurking in garages, sheds, and workshops around the world. There is some top workmanship there Peter. Love the curved pieces of timber, coach builders didn't hesitate when it came to style.
Grant.
PS so I enter the workshop to see I have still got two large spoked wheels left, Hmmmm !

[FWLR]

Great job Rik. Glad those photos helped. It reminds me of the horse and cart my Dad used to use for his shows. The horse especially looks just like the one he had. It lived to a great age of 19years.

[ge_rik]

Lovely job Rik, and a great subject. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I have a soft spot for horse drawn vehicles.
Could I make one small point, the chain (trace) leading from the hame hook on the collar, should lead back to the eye at the base of the shafts to the left of the horse looking at the picture. It is what actually pulls the cart along. I do hope this is seen as a constructive criticism.
Grant.

Hi Grant
I'm always happy to receive helpful feedback.
All three chains (traces?) are attached to the shaft on each side. It may not be clear in the photos or maybe I've left them a bit too loose.

Rik

[LNR]

I'm probably being a pedant here, the straps that run around the horses rear end are the breeching straps ( used to back the cart up) can't remember the name of the middle chain, the ones I'm indicating (right hand red circle ) are the trace, and usually go to the eye on the shafts indicated by the left hand red circle. Maybe it's running down the inside of the shaft and I can't see it. All that aside the whole thing still looks very good Rik.

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I'll shut up now,
Grant.

[philipy]

I think it looks brilliant, but if we are being pedantic, the reins pose doesn't look natural to me. Since the horse isn't moving, the reins would surely droop down from the drivers hands and hang along the horses back, not arc up?

[ge_rik]

I'm probably being a pedant here, the straps that run around the horses rear end are the breeching straps ( used to back the cart up) can't remember the name of the middle chain, the ones I'm indicating (right hand red circle ) are the trace, and usually go to the eye on the shafts indicated by the left hand red circle. Maybe it's running down the inside of the shaft and I can't see it. All that aside the whole thing still looks very good Rik.
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I'll shut up now,
Grant.

Hi Grant
Now this is interesting. I do like a good debate.

The Hobby's drawing I used show three sorts of harness - a wagon harness, a working trace harness and a decorated shaft harness. The drawing I used was the wagon harness - which shows the traces as I modelled them - from hames to tug hooks on the shaft. The working trace harness (eg for ploughing) shows the trace chains going from the hames to a spreader bar in the position you show. I'll PM you scans of the two drawings rather than put them on here for copyright reasons.

Maybe there are differences in the way harnesses were arranged in the UK vs Oz??

I've found a couple of photos of coal carts which show the arrangement I've used, though I admit I've made the traces somewhat too long.

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Rik

[ge_rik]

I think it looks brilliant, but if we are being pedantic, the reins pose doesn't look natural to me. Since the horse isn't moving, the reins would surely droop down from the drivers hands and hang along the horses back, not arc up?

I tried to make them droop. The reins are actually twisted Gaffa tape. They are desperate to untwist which makes them spring upwards. Perhaps if I'd twisted them the opposite way they'd have drooped downwards....
Rik

[ge_rik]

Aha! Managed to track down some drawings online showing the two types of harness, for clarification - I hadn't realised that we can't attach images to PMs

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Rik

[LNR]

Certainly no debate from me Rik regarding the top pic. of the coal man and his cart, but notice A how high the shafts are and B the lead of the trace chain is rearward, your horse would step a long way forward and in doing so would lift the shafts and negate the purpose of the Ridger (the name I couldn't remember). I know there are variations in harness depending what is being pulled, and may even be geographical as well. A horse pulling a light buggy would have a very simple collar mostly leather with perhaps a horse blanket lining, whilst a Clydesdale's working harness would require a heavy leather collar with Hame irons set in to keep the load out on the horses shoulders and have horse blanket lining usually straw filled for padding. I might be wrong but I don't imagine a coal cart would be a particularly hard load to pull on cobbled or sealed roads.
Grant.
PS sorry just noticed and read your PM.

[FWLR]

They would be up when the driver was about to tell the horse too 'move on'.
I think you have done a brilliant job once again Rik.
I will stop now and won't comment anymore.

[ge_rik]

I've taken on board the feedback and made a few adjustments. The traces etc have now been shortened and I've had a go at drooping the reins. Unfortunately, between drooping them and taking the photos, one of them sprang up again. As Rod says, maybe the driver is getting Neddy to gee-up!

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Does anyone know who makes a set of whitemetal coal scales? I know I've seen some somewhere but it might have been on the Back2Bay6 website. I've got a bucket I can hang from the back of the cart and can probably fashion a feed bag.

Any other suggestions for accoutrements?

Rik

[ge_rik]

BTW
I've blogged the build of the coal cart .......
https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... -cart.html

....... and the harness .......
https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... -coal.html

...... just in case anyone else feels the need to have a bash!

Rik

[KjellAn]

I have stained some of my waggons with acrylic paint mixed with isopropanol. This gives a nice look to the woodstructure.