Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

What is your latest project?
User avatar
gregh
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by gregh » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:38 am

philipy wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:28 am Assuming that a strip could be magnetised strongly enough, then two reed switches mounted just inside the front wheels could detect when they approached and/or moved away from the strip and trigger an appropriate twitch to the steering. How easy that would be in practice and how effective, is another matter, of course.
This all sounds like an interesting future project! But I just remembered that the 8pin picaxe I'm using has no spare I/O pins so I can't add any extra inputs like reed switches.
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: https://members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:50 am

At least your wife acknowledgeds your railway efforts Greg ;)

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:57 am

Regarding the magnetic road I was thinking you just need the front wheels to be magnetic (or replace them with a metal roller wheel so it becomes a steam roller) and then place a magnetic strip or strategically placed magnets along the route.

Neodymium magnets are very strong and survive outside as mine have not corroded or lost any of their magnet charge (I use them for uncoupling).

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by GTB » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:09 pm

ge_rik wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:57 pm Would the same apply to .22 airgun pellets do you think? I've used them for weighting one of my locos. I smothered them with UHU to stop them rattling around so, hopefully, they're insulated from the air - but they're also now impossible to remove.
Hi Rik,

I've started a new topic, as the reply is long and not really relevant to Greg's thread.

https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 29&t=11777

Graeme

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by GTB » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:34 pm

gregh wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:32 am My present idea of controlling steering as well seems to be impossible. It's like the 'butterfly effect' - a small error in steering, such as caused by slop in the steering, or even a stone on the road, magnifies as you go along.
Maybe strategically placed 'guide' rails' along the route would help get it 'back on the rails'
I did wonder how reliable a programmed path would be, without some form of location feedback.

You might be able to use something similar to the Faller Car System which is made in HO and N scale and has been around for years. I've seen it used on layouts locally at exhibitions and it appears to work reliably. The steering is purely mechanical, no electrickery involved.

The system uses a small neodymium magnet on a steering arm under a battery powered vehicle to follow a steel wire laid just under the road surface.

In garden scale the old Australian standby of fencing wire would probably work as the guide wire, if it was embedded in a cement road surface. The Faller models have Ackerman steering, but I can't see why it wouldn't work with the farm cart steering used on traction engines.

The description of the Faller System on the UK importers website should give you an idea of how it works. The magnet is mounted on the top of the brass skate that slides along the surface of the road, keeping the magnet to wire distance fairly contant.

http://www.gaugemaster.com/articles/pro ... ystem.html

Regards,
Graeme

jim@NAL
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:01 am
Location: haverhill suffok

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by jim@NAL » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:25 pm

great project looked very good on the video have you tried some sort of lube on the gearbox??.are you going to make it smoke iv got a very good smoke unit for one of my locos I can send you the link

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:26 pm

Jimbo post the smoke unit here as be interested as I want to fit my diesel with one for start up clag.

jim@NAL
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1115
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:01 am
Location: haverhill suffok

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by jim@NAL » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:31 pm

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-Smoke-Gen ... Ll_Bmrr53A

a bit expensive but the best iv found if you look at the sellers other some units .there are a few different types voltages etc .I also did a test and used my vapeing fulid in it and it worked fine and gave a lovly smell too .(you can buy vape fuild cheap off e bay in different flavour's) it does make a massive amount of smoke too

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:39 pm

That's the nuts, post what you been up to with it in your own thread.

User avatar
cooltrain
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:05 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by cooltrain » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:15 am

Looks like a great project Greg! Looking forward to seeing the finished results. :thumbright:
"So what's yer name?" asked the driver.
"Charlie, sir."
"I don't address my firemen by their Christian names, son. Give me your surname."
"Darling, sir."
"Okay, Charlie, start shoveling."

User avatar
gregh
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by gregh » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:55 am

GTB wrote: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:34 pm The system uses a small neodymium magnet on a steering arm under a battery powered vehicle to follow a steel wire laid just under the road surface.
In garden scale the old Australian standby of fencing wire would probably work as the guide wire, if it was embedded in a cement road surface. The Faller models have Ackerman steering, but I can't see why it wouldn't work with the farm cart steering used on traction engines.
The description of the Faller System on the UK importers website should give you an idea of how it works. The magnet is mounted on the top of the brass skate that slides along the surface of the road, keeping the magnet to wire distance fairly contant.
http://www.gaugemaster.com/articles/pro ... ystem.html
Regards,
Graeme
Thanks for the link - most interesting. Wonder if it has been done in G scale, outdoors. I'm wondering how strong the magnets would need to be.
Anyhow, that's all for the future, maybe. I've put the auto mode idea on the back burner. I need to rebuild the road at Lilyvale, and straighten it, but that's a major town planning exercise! If I do I'll experiment with the wire and magnet idea before I start.

And NO to smoke - no room. I'm still trying to figure if I have room for a sound card and speaker, maybe mounted under the roof?
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: https://members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by FWLR » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:45 am

Great to see you have it sorted Greg. :thumbright: :thumbright:

User avatar
gregh
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by gregh » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:19 am

I have now finished the painting and added a few details,- many more could be added, but I doubt I’ll bother.
I added some weight up front and glued rubber bands around the front wheels to get steering grip.
And used chains for the steering. I need to loosen off the steering to keep the wheels on the ground! I think the chains are too tight and hold the wheels up.
front view crop.jpg
front view crop.jpg (51.48 KiB) Viewed 5291 times

A rubber band drives the flywheel from the main axle – it may not be prototypical but adds some movement to the model.
The positive charging stud is the tap holding the bucket (I use small alligator clips and small studs for my battery charging points on all my locos.)
You might notice that the driver has suffered a work place injury and lost his hand – soon to be replaced I hope.
LH side1.JPG
LH side1.JPG (297.74 KiB) Viewed 5291 times

The on/off switch and neg charging stud are on the backplate.
rear view crop.jpg
rear view crop.jpg (109.7 KiB) Viewed 5291 times

The young lady on the pub verandah looks impressed.
RH side.JPG
RH side.JPG (240.99 KiB) Viewed 5291 times

So here’s the video of the final test run around Lilyvale streets.
https://youtu.be/jjLF57UJpG4

(I cheated and added sound to the video – I still can’t figure out how to get a speaker into the space.)
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: https://members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by FWLR » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:36 am

Loved the video Greg, it was a bit steep that hill…. :)

Think the wheels need a pivot of some kind to keep them both on the ground on uneven surfaces don’t you think. In the full scale ones they have them don’t they.. :thumbright:

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by FWLR » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:37 am

BTW i have subscribed to your’e youtube channel. :thumbright:

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:40 am

A traction engine popping wheelies, very cool.

I like it Greg, the speed changes have improved it's running.

Can you not fit a speaker in the roof of the cab?

User avatar
gregh
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by gregh » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:45 am

FWLR wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:36 am Loved the video Greg, it was a bit steep that hill…. :)
Think the wheels need a pivot of some kind to keep them both on the ground on uneven surfaces don’t you think. In the full scale ones they have them don’t they.. :thumbright:
It was working fine before I added the chains.
I've loosened off the pivot screw and will see tomorrow if that helps or whether I need to loosen the chains as well. I did try today with both chains loose and I was surprised that it ran straight BUT everytime it hit a small bump, the steering wobbled around and then came back straight - a very unprototypical look, so I tightened them again.
Maybe if I loosen just one side.

As to the hill - the wheel was slipping on the axle which may have contributed to the 'fail to proceed'.
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: https://members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

User avatar
gregh
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:44 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by gregh » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:58 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:40 am Can you not fit a speaker in the roof of the cab?
I have recorded that sound on the video onto a 20 sec sound recorder card. I only have a 25mm mylar speaker to test it, and it was just hopeless. I could fit two, 40mm mylar into the roof but I have used them before in a little diesel and the volume is so low that you have to be up close and personal to hear it.
I don't have the 'depth' under the roof to hide a 'real' speaker, although I suppose I could hide it in a box that stuck down.

And if I do put them in the roof, I have to get the wires up there somehow. The roof support tubes are hollow but I want the roof the pull off, so if I run any wires that will be difficult.

I need something to remind me that it is turned on too, but the sound card would only play while running so that won't help. I need a light.
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: https://members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by FWLR » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:00 am

And loosening the chains would help I’am sure Greg. They hang down on the full scale one’s on one side slightly so has to compensate for any rough roads. If you see one been driven, you will see the driver constantly adjusting the steering wheel to keep the engine running straight… :thumbright:
412In_Burrell_Traction_Engine_Green_7.jpg
412In_Burrell_Traction_Engine_Green_7.jpg (333.21 KiB) Viewed 5660 times

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: Building a radio controlled (electric) traction engine

Post by philipy » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:25 am

I think the reason why one side is slack on the real thing is that the steering chain is continuous and wraps several times round a horizontal rod/pulley, which rotates one way or the other to change direction, so its always tight on the side into which it is turning. Having both sides slack will always tend to create a self centring effect, assuming they are both the same length, since the weight trying to drop down on both sides will be the same.

Having said all that, the actual run is very impressive, but won't leave much brain power spare to run trains as well!
Philip

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests