Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

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Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:28 am

8 feet (7' 11-and-a-peanut") of bench work went up this evening, and I was rather pleased with how well/quickly it went considering that I am a hand tools guy. Power tools in the relatively confined headroom of a basement is one of the circles of hell so far as I am concerned.

I used an off cut of plywood to establish where the platform should go, but it threw up the question of where the turntable should go. However there is a little bit of pondering to be done with regards to the turntable pit - which I am not looking forwards to cutting out. I basically have two options:

1. Site it at the end of the platform road, and use it gain access to the run round loop, and also to serve both the loco shed and the workshop. The catch here is loco in the pit if they get it wrong coming into the station, or out of the shed/shop. I am also unclear as to whether I could get one of the long bogie coaches into the shop via the TT. An academic question, but one that becomes an issue mentally.

2. On a siding at the end of the r/r loop. It would not access anything, and would allow me to model the station yard. Loco shed and workshop would be at the country end of the station - reminiscent of Kilkee on the West Clare Railway.

Diagram in a little while.

Cheers,
Peter in Va.
Last edited by IrishPeter on Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by LNR » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:31 am

Don't know if these pics. are any help/inspiration Peter.
My turntable (built on a 24" bike wheel) covers the north end of three loop lines at Leawarra station, one a platform road, feeds two sidings to workshops, and siding "A" alongside the shops. Has served me well and certainly saves space.
P1010001.JPG
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P1010004.JPG
P1010004.JPG (85.03 KiB) Viewed 6158 times
Grant.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:03 pm

I like that; it is very tidy. Much more tidy than anything I am likely to achieve.

My design will lack some of the elegance of your solution, but it did occur to me last night that even if I put the turntable at the end of the platform road, that would not tie me to the idea of putting the workshop and loco shed at that end of the station rather than at the country end by the carriage shed. That might also make it look a bit less like Schull! I'll have to have a look at Killybegs where the platform line also led into the turntable.

Cheers,
Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:57 am

This evening's piece of fun was making the hole for the turntable pit, a process complicated by the fact the jig saw went to the happy hunting ground some time ago. As you can tell by the fact I have not replaced in the intervening 5 to 7 years it is not a piece of equipment that I have felt the need of, so it did not replaced. As a consequence it was time to look at the contents of the tool box and find a substitute.

The original idea was to use a thin bladed saw, but the blade was not thin enough and had a depressing tendency to go straight. The coping saw we have is a small one, so what's the work-around... This required tea to be brewed, and as the grey cells made some sort of attempt at formulating a plan, it eventually occurred to me that the solution was to brog four holes through with a brace, and then cut out a square with a small saw leaving the remain bits to be taken out with the coping saw - tomorrow, as it happens, as my right elbow was cream-crackered by the time I had finished cutting the square! [Finished it off this afternoon 04/IX/17 - another 4' section and then brown paint next!]

I have decided to postpone the decision on where the engine shed is going for now and concentrate on getting the first three boards, and the platform road, run-round, and goods siding roughed out.

One thing I have discovered is that a little bit of thinking ahead is needed as to the sort of traffic one would expect when building a railway. I think it is generally known that whilst in Britain the division between flats (opens) and closed wagons was roughly two-to-one in favour of flats, in Ireland it was precisely the reverse. In a small down like Skebawn I think one could reasonably expect the usual cattle traffic; deliveries of hardware, biscuits, bicycles, cloth, farm equipment, lamp oil, indeed everything needed for the sustenance of a small town that could not be produced locally. Outbound loads of sugar beet and potatoes; more cattle; fish in boxes (as Skebawn is near the sea); as well as all sorts of stuff that ships FedEx or UPS today. Therefore the cattle dock, and the inevitable goods shed and platform are conspicuous in Irish branch-line termini, but coal drops are largely absent. One long platform should do it on the passenger side, as the usual three or four trains a day is supplemented only by the occasional "Nunex," Race Day, or Regatta special - all of which is enough to keep 'the Ferret', Finnbar the Spanner, and the rest of the crew almost gainfully employed!

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by Soar Valley Light » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:26 am

Great work Peter,

I'd never considered the balance of opens to vans before and certainly never dreamt that there would be a difference between countries. It's obvious when you consider the factors you have put forward. There's always something new to learn on the railway.

I absolutely LOVE the idea of a Nunex!

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:04 pm

Soar Valley Light wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:26 am Great work Peter,

I'd never considered the balance of opens to vans before and certainly never dreamt that there would be a difference between countries. It's obvious when you consider the factors you have put forward. There's always something new to learn on the railway.

I absolutely LOVE the idea of a Nunex!

Andrew
The proportions can be wildly different. At closure the Schull and Skibbereen had 44 closed wagons, of which about half were cattle wagons, to just 6 opens, and 4 timber bolsters. The Castlederg and Victoria Bridge had 19 convertibles (closed/cattle) and 9 open wagons, whilst the Clogher Valley in 1900 had 10 cattle wagons, 45 covered, and 41 opens, which is the closest to parity I have seen. The Ballymena lines had about equal numbers of flats and closeds, but there was also a large fleet of bottom discharge hoppers on those systems. My old friend the Isle of Man had 19 closed; 25 cattle; and 131 opens, though it has to be said, that given the photographic evidence, the average open did a lot fewer miles than the average van, but I suspect that was really a WW2 thing on the IMR.

The local PP is also enthusiastic about Nunexs - it gets the interfering Biddies out the parish for a day! Actually, the Skebawn Nunex is a tame affair and takes them to Castleknox to pick up the train to Claremorris for Knock. Before 1960 that train would probably have been routed over the Cork and Bandon, through the streets of Cork, reversing at Cork Glanmire station, then up the GS&W mainline to Charleville, over the Patrickswell line to Limerick where it reverses again for the ex-WL&W line up to Claremorris via Ennis and Tuam. In earlier times Ballyhaunis was used for Knock Pilgrimage traffic, which would have meant a routing via Portarlington, or a further reversal at Claremorris, to gain the M&GW Mayo branch. From what I remember of the Nunexs over the WL&W in the 1980s they usually left base at about 6am, and got home at midnight!

Cheers,
Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by Big Jim » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

Nunex. I like it!
I have just been on a Muex (mothers union) it must be the Welsh equivalent.
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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by ge_rik » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:13 pm

Coincidentally, when I was planning the rolling stock for my railway, I did a quick survey of NG railways to get a feel for the sorts of stock they had. I can't guarantee the accuracy of the data as different sources I consulted came up with different numbers - and also railways (esp those in Ireland) had variable numbers of stock over the years - here's what I came up with ...... https://riksrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2010 ... gauge.html

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:14 pm

I hear you when it come to the guess the numbers game! Some railways are bigger headaches than other when it comes to statistics. The Isle of Man can be difficult in that they never had 25 cattle wagons at the same time, but did have 25 K class vehicles on the books. A few were numbered in the K series but they had been built/converted to the G pattern but not renumbered! Then some of the early H and M wagons were withdrawn before the last new examples were delivered. The two bogie van were really Non Passenger Coaching Stock, and were used for luggage and parcels traffic, which was extensive down to the 1950s, though with the half-brakes they saw increasing less use after about 1920. The other fun area is the surviving 4-wh brake vans which were used as closed wagons, or storage sheds by the 1940s! The IMR also seems to have been curiously shy about listing its departmental stock. I know some paired 4-wh carriage underframes were used as rail carriers, in the 1930s and 40s, and various both vehicles got adapted as PW vehicles, but you are mainly dependent on photographs!

However, both the Clogher Valley and the Schull and Skibbereen makes the IMR look like child's play because they were always rebuilding things.

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by FWLR » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:30 am

Hi Peter, do you have an update on your T/T, some pic’s would help me try to get it into my head lol. :lol:

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:32 pm

I have not got much further than cutting out the hole. I did find some sort of Lazy Susan when we were moving, which looks as though it was designed as a sort of revolving plate for cake decorating, which I inverted and stuck in the hole. The fit was slightly assisted by a hammer. At that point things ground to a halt as other things, like work, interfere with railway modelling occasionally.

I had to go to North Carolina at the weekend, and then on Monday I had a painful encounter with some hornets whilst cutting the grass. I have not felt like doing much since then, as the blessed itching kept me up most of Monday night. I currently smell like a bag of salt and vinegar crisps as I keep dabbing the bites with vinegar to help kill the itching. Anyway, I am hoping to get a bit more bench-work up today, and I will borrow herself's camera. Dwayne asked me for some piccies of the hell-hole a while back, so it is more than time I obliged.

Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by FWLR » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:42 pm

Ouch that sounds painful mate, not a lover of any insect myself, what do hornets and wasps contribute to us anyway, what is their purpose in life but only to annoy and sting us...lol. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by Big Jim » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:54 pm

Nasty.
I do like the use of a hammer to adjust the fit, spoken like a true engineer.
And remember if you can't fix something with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem.
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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:46 pm

At the moment I don't have electrical problems on the railway, as that form of witchcraft has not made its way to the Skebawn & Castleknox yet. On the other hand, I think the day may be coming when I have to R/C the regulator on my Millie to address the issues posed by the base of the chimney stack, which unfortunately coincides with the station throat. Until then my problems tend to be mainly mechanical.

As I slowly work out the final track layout for Skebawn, I find that in the back of my mind I am already working out the wire and rodding runs from the signal cabin, as I would eventually like to build a interlocked frame, and have all the appropriate gubbings hidden behind the 15mm scale box. However, that is still a ways off, though ballasting is usually one of the first things I do scenically, and I am wondering whether it is better to install the rodding before ballasting the indoor section of the railway.

I think, given the size of most CofI parishes in the West of Ireland, the Skebawn M.U. could do their Muex in a fairly small charabanc, or the S&C's four-wheeler first!

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:12 am

Progress so Far - Photos and Explanation time...
Turntable
Turntable
Railway 2.jpg (419.91 KiB) Viewed 5853 times
This is the east end of Skebawn station where the turntable is located. The set of points controls access to the platform line or the shed. The other line that leads to the turntable is the engine release. The buffer stops mark the end of the goods road.
General View
General View
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General view of the station area. The train stands in front of the location of the station building and loco shed. Station building will be low relief to the right of the locomotive, the loco shed will be "3D" and to the right of the train. The coach is almost a Tralee and Dingle brake-composite. It isn't because it is a foot too long, and IIRC I reversed the 1st and 3rd compartments compared to the original, so I guess it is an original S&CLR vehicle.
General View 2
General View 2
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Larger version of previous view, but without the loco.
Station throat
Station throat
Railway 5.jpg (450.15 KiB) Viewed 5853 times
The Station Throat. The road furthest away is the mainline, then the head shunt/desperation place to stuff spare vehicles; the closest road is the carriage shed line. The photo is being taken from approximately where the signal cabin will stand.

The next fun job will be to take up all that track and give it all that plywood a good lathering with brown emulsion, which means if the scenery chips or dings we won't have "nekkid" ply showing through.

The access to Finnbar O'Toole's new lair will be truly awkward in that it will be a kick back siding from the loco shed, so any carriage needing serious repair will have to be shoved on to the turntable, then hauled into the shed road, and finally propelled into the workshop - a process that would doubtless make a parson swear! Every Irish railway seems to have some strange arrangement that would try the hearts of men, and that is the S&CLR's.

Hope that makes things a bit clearer.

Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by FWLR » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:04 am

Thanks Peter, i have got a better idea now, it’s looks brilliant your layout. :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by LNR » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:42 am

Looking good Peter, you've obviously spent time working out stock movements in your head as opposed to just putting down track. Do I spy the upturned body of a second nice looking passenger coach against the wall and under the rags?
Grant.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:29 pm

The upturned body is a 1:22.3 or 1:24 scale (I forget which) Vossbanen coach I was playing about with a couple of years ago, and never finished. I scaled it off photographs of the two bodies that survive a Grovane on the Setesdalsbanen. If I remember rightly, the originals went back to the 1870s, and were last used on the Vestfoldbanen out of Oslo Vest, which was not converted to standard gauge until 1949. Oslo Vest is now redundant since the tunnel under the city centre was dug and the old standard gauge Ost station was expanded to serve all trains in/out of Oslo. It needs a bit of repair work as it got the rough end of the trip from AZ. I still think I will finish it one of these days, and build a BCo (2nd/3rd Composite bogie) to go with it.

Yes, I do tend to think through the train movements before I start laying track. Then I will have a dry run with track laid loose to see if the brain work was any use. The move that concerns me most is disposing of an arriving mixed train without a lot of fuss. As the anticipated traffic level at Skebawn is 3 trains a day, a second platform was deemed unnecessary, after that there is an element of predestination as to where things need to go. I like the goods sidings close to hand due to the need to shunt them. The loco shed and the carriage siding, but not the loco servicing area, can be a bit out of the way as you only need to get to them at the beginning and end of each session. Basically, the shed can be in a corner, but there should be evidences of a water crane and a coal heap handy to wherever the locos are serviced between trains. I tend to fall into the IMR habit of putting such things on the outer end of the loco shed road. The turntable is a new departure for me, as they were common on Irish NG lines, but not elsewhere in the then United Kingdom.

In this case, mixed train arrives in the platform road, which means the loco can be watered before being coaled and then turned. After that it is run around, move the passenger coaches to the middle road, and start shunting, with departing wagons going up against the passenger vehicles until operations are complete, and the whole train can be moved back into the platform road ready to depart after one last check of the loco's water and coal supplies. Hopefully one gets the shunting done before the advertised departure time. :)

Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by LNR » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:53 am

Thanks Peter, I share your liking for things Norwegian, particularly the locos of the Setesdelsbanen. They have a very elegant look to them, something to do with the large spaces underneath them I think.
Grant.

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Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:35 am

I got interesting in Norwegian narrow gauge through the Isle of Man Railway. It is a bit convoluted, but basically the trail of breadcrumbs starts with Henry Vignoles, who visited Norway fairly frequently and was friends with Carl Pihl, and the fact that the IMR's first set of drawings for their locomotives were labelled 'Norwegian Tank Locomotive.' There was also some resemblance between the original Peel line stations and some of the early Norwegian buildings, etc..

Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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