Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

What is your latest project?
Big Jim
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: Near Llanelli

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by Big Jim » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:58 pm

I am not really up on 45mm gauge stuff. Perhaps others on here will know the answer.
However, if one is 40mm and works, the other is 41mm and has issues then it suggests that this could be a cause.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by GTB » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:23 pm

IrishPeter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:53 am The LBD really needs to be converted to AWD to be useful on the S&CT&LR as when the unpowered wheels are leading they tend to pick up the frogs of facing points and derail.
Conversion from 2WD to 4WD won't make any difference to derailments at turnouts if the leading wheels are wide to gauge. It will improve the haulage capability though, so worth doing for that reason.

The nominal back to back on 45mm coarse gauge is 40mm. If it is wider, the turnout check rails can't pull the wheelset over far enough to clear the nose of the v-crossing (frog). The only fix is to take the wheelset out and reset the back to back.

A simple wheel gauge made by filing notches in a piece of ply, or aluminium, is a useful tool for checking wheelsets before installation.

The G1MRA 45mm coarse scale standard is commonly used for SM32/45 narrow gauge and the dimensions are here. The page also includes track standards.

http://www.g1mra.com/pdf/standard-dimen ... gauge1.pdf

The 16mm Association has published it's suggested wheel standards here

http://www.16mm.org.uk/resources/wheel-standards/

Graeme

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by FWLR » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:20 am

IrishPeter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:37 pm
Yes, it is lovely having all that indoor space, but honestly, I liked being outdoors better. I am still playing with the idea of both an indoor and an outdoor line. The former for winter and summer, the latter for spring and autumn.

Cheers,
Peter in Va.
Brilliant plan there Peter. :thumbup:

User avatar
Killian Keane
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by Killian Keane » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:28 pm

I'm getting strong vibes of Schull station going by the track plan, all it needs is an engine shed at the back perpendicular to the running lines coming off the turntable :thumbright:
Blokes with tea can build anything

User avatar
IrishPeter
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:24 am
Location: 'Boro, VA

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:01 pm

It leans a bit more towards Kilkee at the other end of the station with loco shed, headshunt, and a road for spare carriages all at that end. It is one of my exercises in pastiche in that the combination of elements from Schull, and Kilkee produce a very plausible Skebawn. I used to do this with my OO scale stuff with elements from two or three stations belonging to a company being used to make a very plausible fictional station. I still have Grimsby (New Station) up my sleeve if I give 4mm another go! The LNER were going to replace both Town and Dock in the late 1930s but Hitler's war intervened.

The loco shed perpendicular to the main running line off the turntable was an arrangement that the Schull and Skibbereen lived to regret especially as it was too close to the TT pit for comfort. I think they had to winch one out of the hole a couple of times over the years. The turntable bring effectively the access to the loco release appeared quite a few other places in Ireland - e.g. Harcourt Street, Dublin; Athboy; Western Road, Cork; Skibbereen before the extension of BG line to Baltimore, and Kilybegs! A couple of other termini had the turntable at the buffer stop end of the loco run-round, the two that stick in my head are Kilkee (WCR) and Youghal.

Next job it seems is fettle the B2B on the LBD...

Cheers,
Peter in VA
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

User avatar
IrishPeter
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:24 am
Location: 'Boro, VA

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:03 pm

After the LBD gets its chassis sorted out, the next project will be a small signal box for Skebawn. Irish railways tended to use the Liverpool based Railway Signalling Co. most often, with MacK and Holland a distant second. I just have to sort out whether I prefer the look of RSC or MacK&H standard boxes. On the other hand, as the terminus would have had a fairly small frame (8 to 14 levers) there may have been just a ground frame hut. Of course, building the box/hut is going to be a different matter, but at least I am building for the indoors section of my railway 'empire' so I don't have to make the thing waterproof. Curranhilty Jct. is going to have to be a box, though as the layout there would probably need around 20 levers.

I should probably build a row of houses/shops including Maggie's Bar where all the intrigue takes place. There is always something to do...

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

User avatar
Soar Valley Light
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
Location: North West Leicestershire

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by Soar Valley Light » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:56 pm

Hi Peter,

I love hearing your accounts of the Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway. It sounds like you've got some interesting projects ahead of you!

RS co installations always have the edge on McK &H in my view. Big boxes of any maunfacturer are always intriguing but I think it's the small boxes that have all the character. What is the difference between a box and a GF........? We could (and may well) debate that one until the cows come home! At the end of the day a big two storey structure can be a GF and a hut at track level can be a box! Most signal boxes house the block instruments - but sometimes they don't!

Aren't definitions wonderful things :mrgreen:

Whatever you choose to build and whatever you call it, I look forward to seeing the results. :thumbright:

All the best,

Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

User avatar
IrishPeter
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:24 am
Location: 'Boro, VA

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:21 pm

Yes, it is a very grey area between Signal Box and ground frame huts. No real problems when it comes to accepting the stand in the rain version as a ground frame, but with the rest it can be a fag paper's thickness of difference. One writer argued that Douglas was a signal cabin and St John's a ground frame on the basis that St John's did not have a telephone (neither did Douglas before 1925), and was not permanently manned, but that applied to many of the Highland Railways' cabins, as did the fact that the single line staff was in the hands of the stationmaster.

Both Manx cabins were singularly interesting, but St John's was probably the more interesting cabin in that it was early (1879/80) with a stone base, a gabled roof, and a relatively small glazed area. I cannot remember how the locking room was accessed though. It was little changed with the original 10 lever Stevens frame serving until the end - 1968. The signals were a mix of slotted posts recycled from the original 1873 station, and Stevens' single spectacle semaphores. Points and signals were interlocked, as it protected the running junction between the Douglas-Peel, and St John's to Ramsey lines, but there were no FPLs. I only saw it once, and by then the scrap men had had the frame, but the rest of the box was intact. St John's "points' box" controlled the east end of St John's, whilst the west end was controlled by a ramshackle collection of levers grouped by the crossing keeper's hut. The only IMR specialty that was missing at that end being the Lindley windless. In later days the west end had slot detectors so you could not pull off the approach signals (home and distant really don't work in this context) if the points were reversed. In later years, another Highland feature was standard - the stationmaster-cum-signalman bicycling between the east and west ends to signal trains through!

Douglas has a Dutton and Co. box of 1892, which is disused but intact. This box has a brick base, and a superstructure that resembles that erected between Dublin and Dundalk for the GNR(I) about the same time. It still retains its original a drink handle frame of 36 levers, of which 30 were in used back in the day. The other equipment was a couple of repeaters for the Peel and Castletown distants, and two phones of 1925 vintage, one for the Peel line omnibus circuit and the other for the South Line circuit. Like Ireland, the distant levers are still green. The normal distant/home/starter division only really applies at Douglas. Elsewhere it is probably more accurate to refer to approach signals on the old IMR sections, as they were usually too far back to be homes, and homes on the ex-Manx Northern, though some of the LC signals were set back. Signal levers are grouped by the station building, but the points are on local handle levers, and are locked by slot detectors when the approach signal is pulled off. Even today IMR signalling is very much in a 1870s time warp, and that even goes for the motor worked semaphores at Douglas which are not true starters. Ironically, the approach signal at Douglas is a colour light, but should be read like an 1870s semaphore!

Back to the S&CT. Skebawn will probably end up with a hut which the directors of the S&CT have dubbed Skebawn Signal Cabin, whilst Curranhilty Jct may well get a small RSCo box like Tooban Jct. on the Swilly, and I may just be whimsical enough to label it "Curranhilty Jct, G.F." :D.

Cheers,
Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

User avatar
IrishPeter
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:24 am
Location: 'Boro, VA

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:36 pm

This morning I decided to do some clearance checking around the station, and discovered that I had not left enough space at the back of the board for the carriage shed. This resulted in some reshuffling. The platform road came forwards about 1.5" making about 9" between the sleeper ends and the back wall. The loop came forward by about the same, whilst by narrowing the 6' way from scale 8' to 6'6" I was able to being the goods road forwards by only about 1 inch so there is still room for the goods platform along the front of the layout. I am not completely sure where the carriage points are going to be, but I reckon I need about 6' of siding to accommodate a 4 coach train, so it will be a fairly long run of rodding if I ever do get everything connected up. Mind you, the carriage siding, as an after thought (real life and model,) might have simply been controlled by a ground frame released by a key on the staff, or an Annett's Key that is released when the main to loop crossover and down home, and up starter are normal. Operationally the latter makes better sense.

LBD works a treat now the back to backs have been sorted.

Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

User avatar
IrishPeter
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:24 am
Location: 'Boro, VA

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:37 pm

I have been stalled for a month. Diocesan synod, an ordination, doctor's appointments, trying to find a new pup (surprisingly difficult here if you don't want a coon hound, pit bull, or a foo-foo dog), and life in general have all got in the way. I have been tired and frustrated enough that I have only been down a time or two for a little tinker and that has been about it. Next goal is getting down to the hardware barn to replenish the wood supply.

However, a very interesting distraction has come along...

We have now had several sharp frosts where the air temperature has got down to -6C to -8C, so the fall die back has occurred. This has revealed the extent of the area at the side of the house that I have earmarked for the outdoor division of my railway empire. The area seems to lend itself to some sort of folded figure of eight or dog-bone plan - given the slope on our garden, probably a miniature Virginia version of the Sargan Eight! One idea I am definitely mulling over is going for 1:22.5 scale on 32mm track to give a fair representation of "two-foot-six" gauge for the outdoor line. In recent years, say since about 2009, I have been definitely interested in both Irish NG and Calthrop's ideas about two-foot-six gauge light railways, so the thinking is that the more detailed hand-built Irish line can be inside, whereas the 2'6" line can go outside where kit-bashed plastic would stand up better.

Does that sound like a plan?

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

Big Jim
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: Near Llanelli

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by Big Jim » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:22 pm

Peter, that sounds like an amazing plan. A folded figure of 8 could give a nice continuous run and plenty of scope for interesting features. Mind you the Dog Bone pattern does mean the possibility of double track mainline.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

User avatar
IrishPeter
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:24 am
Location: 'Boro, VA

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:29 pm

I would be more likely to put a station on that stretch and wangle it to look like a major junction than use it to fake a stretch of double track. Also, double track is a bit like two spikes in the Inquisition Sketch. ;) The Scottish and Irish element does tend to steer me towards even pretended mainlines being single track.

Peter in AZ
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

User avatar
IrishPeter
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:24 am
Location: 'Boro, VA

Re: Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway Mk. -erm-

Post by IrishPeter » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:39 pm

Big Jim wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:22 pm Peter, that sounds like an amazing plan. A folded figure of 8 could give a nice continuous run and plenty of scope for interesting features. Mind you the Dog Bone pattern does mean the possibility of double track mainline.
I had a nosy around outside with a tape measure yesterday despite it being somewhat brass monkeys. The available area without intensive negotiation appears to be about 15' by 32' but the domestic authority seems amenable to the idea of an extension across the rear of the kitchen provided she "does not have to look at toy town." Sounds like a very definite hint to keep buildings around the corner in the useless patio area, which I am keen on doing anyway, and that would tend to push me in the direction of some sort of distorted dog bone design, with the two parallel tracks in the middle of the loop separated by grade - one higher than the other. I am assuming the lack of adverse comment is down to the fact that the railway is intended to occupy a junky corner of the garden that neither of us has been in maintaining so far. Earlier proposals, such has looping it around the flower beds got the other sort of warm reception; the variety where one shouts "Incoming!" and takes cover.

The brain is now ticking over on issues such as minimum radii and maximum gradients. I see surveying work in the near future.

Cheers,
Peter in Va.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests