attempting to install Walscherts valve gear on RH Sammie

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artfull dodger
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attempting to install Walscherts valve gear on RH Sammie

Post by artfull dodger » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:09 pm

I bought a Roundhouse Sammie, along with the Roundhouse Walscherts valve gear kit. The previous owner said he looked at installing it but ran into issues with not having enough frame height to drill and mount the cross shafting that support and shifts the valve gear. I am thinking some extra brackets bolted to the frame made of brass will suffice but till the engine and kit arrive in the post, I can only brainstorm from his pictures he sent. The engine is torn down as he wanted to repaint. To me the paint looks fine with the look of a well used logging engine. He did repaint the smokebox a darker shade that is more correct for the "graphite" look of smokeboxes in the USA. Not the more silver look that Roundhouse uses. He also added some hand rails. I plan to add working headlight and a nice brass bell sourced from Accucraft's E store. To me, not making the basic series upgradable to full valve gear is one huge mistake that RH made, atleast on the Sammie and Bertie. Not to down play a solid model, but it would have added one more upgrade that RH could have sold to owners at some point. To that end, if RH is looking for a more entry level USA engine for thier Classic line, how about a Super Sammie? Take the Sammie, fit the full quasi Walscherts valve gear and combination lever and make him a 2-4-2T logging engine. Plenty of room under the cab for a small trailing truck and just extent the front buffer beam(pilot in the USA) and put a small leading truck in front of the cylinders. Now you have a typical small logging engine from the USA using almost no new tooling on Roundhouses's end. Most of thier USA engines have been higher end of the classic range, the Forney and the SRRL #24. I am thinking more around the Lady Anne price range for a USA model. Mike
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Post by Keith S » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:50 am

The "Sammie" IS upgradeable. You'll just have to use your imagination a little. There is an article in "16mm Today" this quarter about a "Mille" that was converted to reversing valve-gear. Most of his troubles had to do with the Weldon firebox and external burners. You will have no such problems. You might have to make a new eccentric rod depending on the distance between the axles. Also, Chris Bird converted a "Bertie" to Walschaerts valve-gear using Roundhouse bits. I have also seen a "Bertie" with Hackworth valve-gear. Walschaerts would have been easier, because the Hackworth gear is meant tot be used with inclined cylinders. It's all quite do-able.

You will just have to wait till the locomotive arrives and do some measurements. If you have any mechanical ability, and I'm sure you have, judging by some of your other projects, I think you will not find it too difficult.

Good luck.

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Post by DLRdan » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:54 pm

Have a read of this, taken from Chris Bird's website

http://www.summerlands-chuffer.co.uk/78 ... 4577588091

I've done the Hackworth conversion which does need a small addition to the frames however, apart from a couple of carefully positioned holes I cant see any major issues with fitting the kit. You may need some custom parts to do it.
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Post by artfull dodger » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:20 pm

I do remember seeing that article somewhere before, shows it is possible. Should be a fun project, just how difficult depends on what needs to be made or customized to make it function. The fun should begin later this week sometime. Mike
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Post by DLRdan » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:30 pm

I would guess that a special crank pin for the rear axle will need making and the eccentric rod may need to be replaced with either the short one if its not already in the kit or a special one making. It should be a relatively easy conversion, accuracy is key with valve gear.
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Post by artfull dodger » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:36 pm

The gentleman says the kit comes with the rear crank pin to replace the bolt that holds the rods on the stock Sammie.  Other than some brackets, he didnt think there would be any complex machining needed.  Now figuring out the length of the eccentric rod might be interesting for me, I cannot do math at all(did get that ability with my autism, got the opposite!) but hopefully I can get it close enough.  I figured more would have atttempted or done this conversion, but I guess most are happy with the slip eccentric set up. Now I need to get my remaining two 16mm engines swapped for one more USA style logging style engine, or sold so I can purchase one. Mike
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Post by artfull dodger » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:29 pm

Here is the valve gear installed, I made a few changes to the set up as provided by Roundhouse. Sammie as built does not have tall enough frames to drill the mounting point for the "thru frame" bushing for the expansion link shaft. It infact, by measurement, right on top of the frame just behind the spring detail on the frame. SO... I used the 2 "penguin" brackes as mounting brackets, I angled them backwards and drilled the frame and bolted them in place to locate the bushings. I then tightened the bushing nuts at the other end to clamp that end of the bracket to the frame. I have 2 more "penguin" brackets on order from Roundhouse so that I can hook up the lift links to shift the valve gear. Right now the gear stays in forward direction just fine without the lifting links. I took my cut off wheel on my dremel and cut a section out of the old slip eccentric rods on the back side of the rear drivers. This allowed me to remove the old eccentric rods without pulling the rear drivers and having to requarter them. I used my can of degreaser to flush out the grit left from that cutting operation. I lubricated the whole chassis and ran on air for 10 min(with oil into the supply line every couple of min). I then ran on steam, first 10 min on blocks as the motion was quite stiff yet. When I seen that speed was increasing and I could throttle back to just a "tick over" speed, I stopped the engine and moved him to my garden railway and ran the last 10min or so of the run on the track. Looks awsome, even without the body on the engine, just a chassis and boiler! Sammie with proper valve gear is really something Rodger over at Roundhouse should seriously look at doing, or atleast changing the frame design to allow for this upgrade to be done by the new owner. If the rear axle was designed to be "keyed" so the driver could be more easily removed and reinstalled without any special quartering tools or fancy pullers, and the frame to have a thicker top rail with predrilled hole for the bushings. Or better yet just offer a Super Sammie in the Classic line with the valve gear installed! Mike
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Last edited by artfull dodger on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by artfull dodger » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:33 pm

I have the mounting of the lift link rock shaft figured out, just waiting on parts from Roundhouse. But its the fitting of the control in the cab that is baffling me. The right side has the gas valve and tank in the way. Cant move the tank as it lines up with a hole in the roof to fill it. Might be able to move the gas valve, but it might make it hard to adjust. Left side of the cab is full of water sight glass and lubricator tank that has to line up with a hole in the cab floor for the drain. With the cab roof being fixed, finding a spot to put the lever to shift the valve gear will be a bigger challenge to me than mounting the actual valve gear. The non opening cab roof makes it the hardest part. For now he runs fine in forward and with much better power than before(probably needed re timed even with the old valve gear). Mike
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Last edited by artfull dodger on Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by big-ted » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:02 pm

That's looking fantastic. Good on you for tackling that.

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Re: attempting to install Walscherts valve gear on RH Sammie

Post by DLRdan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:50 pm

I've got my reversing lever in the cab door way on the same side as the gas tank. I will get a picture later.
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Re: attempting to install Walscherts valve gear on RH Sammie

Post by artfull dodger » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:19 pm

Thanks dan, get me some pics of how you set up the lever control on yours. Mike
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Re: attempting to install Walscherts valve gear on RH Sammie

Post by DLRdan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:30 am

Here you go, My Bertie has Hackworth but you should be able to use the same lever position.

Image

Image


Before you ask yes, the wheels are double flanged
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Re: attempting to install Walscherts valve gear on RH Sammie

Post by artfull dodger » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:23 pm

That was sort of my idea as well, but that confirms it will work before I start drilling holes in the footplate. Thanks Dan! I hope to get a Bertie as well later this summer from a local gentleman that is talking about selling his possibly. I will put Walschaerts on Bertie as well. The Hackworth looks good on yours! I do have a couple more things to work around, maily the water top op valve sticks out of the turret the same direction as the gas valve does (toward the right side door). cannot change that to well, I did move the gas valve to stick out the rear windows. That got my gas line out of the way. I think I can work around the water top of valve, just going to have to put a "Z" bend in the rod going to the valve gear lever to feed it around the gas tank. Mike
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Re: attempting to install Walscherts valve gear on RH Sammie

Post by artfull dodger » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:46 pm

I replaced the pictures from the new site I found to host them. I am thinking about building another one of these as I sold the one I built here. I do have an Aster Schools up for sale if anybody is into 1:32nd stuff. Mike the Aspie
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