My build thread of the Kerr Stuart Brazil my first real Loco

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dizzysteamer
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My build thread of the Kerr Stuart Brazil my first real Loco

Post by dizzysteamer » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:04 pm

Having never built a loco I joined a 16mm group on Yahoo for any help and advice i may need and share my work with whoever i am having absolutely no luck trying to post anything with them😕 I have no idea if its down to me or its just a clicky group.

However I am hoping this forum  as enough building experience to help me through my build. Please feel free to criticise and advise
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So here above is my boiler assembly just about sorted with just the smoke box boiler end plate to make all the bush's are phospher bronze the end plates are 2mm thick.
Before I continue with the build  I have a query
The fire tube is 15mm dia but is only .8mm wall thickness  i cant seem to find any of the old 1.2 mm pipe anywhere.
So to all the builders out there.
My question is the book says the crush pressure for 1.2 mm wall thickness is 1150 lbs/sq inch however if i use the domestic water pipe at .8 mm wall thickness and make allowances for the heat effect and maybe silver solder a couple ring washers to the centre of the internal boiler tube length to strengthen the tube do you think this would be suffient for the fire tube.?

Steph 😯
Amateur engineer,  frustrated would be locomotive driver😊

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Post by Big Jim » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:32 pm

I am not the person to answer any questions on boiler thickness sadly, But I am sure someone will know the answer.
However, well done on the start of your project, please keep us well supplied with pictures as it progresses.
I have a great liking for small KS saddle tanks and have built guite a few in smaller scales.
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Post by markoteal » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:39 pm

I'm no expert but it looks great! :)
Where did I put that uncoupler?

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Post by DLRdan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:38 pm

How much do you need, might have some in the workshop
Dan,

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dizzysteamer
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Post by dizzysteamer » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:52 pm

DLRdan:122644 wrote:How much do you need, might have some in the workshop
Hi DLRdan that's very kind of you, I need 6.5inch's to clear the boiler ends, thank you for looking if you do have some I will certainly make sure your not out of pocket :D

Regards Steph
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Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:15 pm

We have some great loco builders from down under, they will certainly be able to offer advice.

Boiler looks great so far, something about the colour of copper and steam engines...

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Post by jim@NAL » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:08 pm

this is great looking and looks very professionally done please keep us posted with more updates and pictures .im sure someone on here can answer your question

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Post by dewintondave » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:29 pm

Hi Steph. I'm in that Yahoo! group too. Keith B, who designed the loco also posts to the group.

I'm using thin-wall too, I don't imagine there will be any issues with the wall section.

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Post by DLRdan » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:47 am

Steph, I've got about 9ft of 15mm, 0.8mm wall pipe that was removed from the house when a new boiler was put in a little over ten years ago.

If it helps I have two of Keith's locos that he built, both of them have the thinner wall tube for the flue.



EDIT: A quick search says that old imperial pipes were of thicker wall and were measured internally instead of externally like modern ones. The old 1/2" pipe comes out at 15.1mm with a 1.2mm wall
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Re: My build thread of the Kerr Stuart Brazil my first real

Post by GTB » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:37 pm

dizzysteamer:122632 wrote:Having never built a loco I joined a 16mm group on Yahoo for any help and advice i may need and share my work with whoever i am having absolutely no luck trying to post anything with them😕 I have no idea if its down to me or its just a clicky group.
The problem is likely to be Yahoo, as there are continuing issues with people on other groups not being able to post for no apparent reason.

I've seen posts from you on the group, so some are getting through. I only read the group online, by logging into Yahoo. The user interface is awful, but I don't seem to have problems posting.

It's certainly not an exclusive group, it even lets in ex-colonials like Dave and I......... ;)

It's worth persevering. You have to be logged into Yahoo anyway, to see the group files, photos and message archive.
dizzysteamer:122632 wrote: My question is the book says the crush pressure for 1.2 mm wall thickness is 1150 lbs/sq inch however if i use the domestic water pipe at .8 mm wall thickness........
As Dan said, 0.8mm would still be strong enough for a boiler working at 40psi.

I'm not familiar with UK model boiler testing and design rules. The Aust. AMBSC copper code, calls up a min. wall thickness of 0.9mm (20g) for a 15mm flue tube, for working pressures of 60-100psi. Martin Evans also calls up 20g for a 5/8" flue.

Roger Melton at Just the Ticket Engineering lists 5/8" x 20g copper tube. http://justtheticketsupplies.co.uk

It has a slightly larger OD than your water pipe, but looking at the photos. it wouldn't be difficult to modify the tubeplates to fit at this stage, if you want to use a heavier tube.

Here in Oz, I've got the opposite problem, most copper tube is 16g (1.6mm) in the sizes I use and it's hard to find even 18g (1.2mm). I had to import some copper tube recently for a small boiler that needed shell and flue sizes that are no longer sold here.

Regards,
Graeme

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Post by dizzysteamer » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:46 pm

DLRdan:122663 wrote:Steph, I've got about 9ft of 15mm, 0.8mm wall pipe that was removed from the house when a new boiler was put in a little over ten years ago.

If it helps I have two of Keith's locos that he built, both of them have the thinner wall tube for the flue.



EDIT: A quick search says that old imperial pipes were of thicker wall and were measured internally instead of externally like modern ones. The old 1/2" pipe comes out at 15.1mm with a 1.2mm wall
Thank you Dan for looking, earlier today I had a chat with a local plumber he said he has some of the older pipe in his yard so fingers crossed, if he is not forthcoming it seems from your reply I can use the thinner wall any way it just seems strange to use something so thin when the rest of the build is so heavy a construction.

I will update with which way I am continuing. I made a steel former today so I can carry on with making the smoke box end plate tomorrow.
It's nice to know you have access to a Brazil I may be turning your way for help at some point if that's ok with your good self.☺

Kindest regards Steph ☺
Amateur engineer,  frustrated would be locomotive driver😊

dizzysteamer
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Re: My build thread of the Kerr Stuart Brazil my first real

Post by dizzysteamer » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:59 pm

I've seen posts from you on the group, so some are getting through. I only read the group online, by logging into Yahoo. The user interface is awful, but I don't seem to have problems posting.

It's certainly not an exclusive group, it even lets in ex-colonials like Dave and I......... ;)

It's worth persevering. You have to be logged into Yahoo anyway, to see the group files, photos and message archive.
dizzysteamer:122632 wrote: My question is the book says the crush pressure for 1.2 mm wall thickness is 1150 lbs/sq inch however if i use the domestic water pipe at .8 mm wall thickness........
As Dan said, 0.8mm would still be strong enough for a boiler working at 40psi.

I'm not familiar with UK model boiler testing and design rules. The Aust. AMBSC copper code, calls up a min. wall thickness of 0.9mm (20g) for a 15mm flue tube, for working pressures of 60-100psi. Martin Evans also calls up 20g for a 5/8" flue.

Roger Melton at Just the Ticket Engineering lists 5/8" x 20g copper tube.   http://justtheticketsupplies.co.uk

It has a slightly larger OD than your water pipe, but looking at the photos. it wouldn't be difficult to modify the tubeplates to fit at this stage, if you want to use a heavier tube.

Here in Oz, I've got the opposite problem, most copper tube is 16g (1.6mm) in the sizes I use and it's hard to find even 18g (1.2mm). I had to import some copper tube recently for a small boiler that needed shell and flue sizes that are no longer sold here.

Regards,
Graeme
Thank you Graeme for your thoughts on my build all duly noted, I am not that slick on a computer. Probably my age lol.
I will try again but  made initial contact with the group using gmail so maybe that's my problem. That's an interesting point regarding the copper tube used over in your side of the world. Is this something to do with high pressure water systems and all joints need to be hard soldered? I think that's becoming popular in some parts of the EU now.

Kindest regards Steph☺
Amateur engineer,  frustrated would be locomotive driver😊

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Re: My build thread of the Kerr Stuart Brazil my first real

Post by GTB » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:04 pm

dizzysteamer:122672 wrote: Is this something to do with high pressure water systems and all joints need to be hard soldered? I think that's becoming popular in some parts of the EU.
I don't think much brazing is going on, Aust. domestic plumbing is just as likely to be plastic now. If it's copper, it's more likely used with compression fittings than brazed.

If you are able to get a piece of thicker wall tube for the flue it will make the flue less liable to mechanical damage and a stronger job all around.

Nice metal work so far by the way.

Regards,
Graeme

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Fred brought over some parts for the Kerr Stuart Loco today

Post by dizzysteamer » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:35 pm

Front and back plate the naked cylinders the steam tee, a valve block and the steam distribution tee for the boiler.

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The new yard looking good a mixture of Bird grit potting gravel and cement :)

Steph :D
Amateur engineer,  frustrated would be locomotive driver😊

dizzysteamer
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UPDATE on my Brazil scratch build

Post by dizzysteamer » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:20 pm

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And to be honest i am delighted with it so far, its far more time consuming doing the plate work than I ever imagined but every part I am treating separately like its a project in itself.☺
P.S. the washers behind the hex bolts are to prevent scratching the chassis during this phase of construction I will leave them out during final assembly.

PPS is it worth me bringing this project to the Peterbourgh show for the association stand i don't normally show my work but would be quite happy to bring it with me.

Steph ☺
Amateur engineer,  frustrated would be locomotive driver😊

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