16mm and its relationship with other scales

Anything related to the garden railway world that is not catered for in another board
User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by IanC » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:44 am

bazzer42 wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:51 am Long live Thomas or any layout that encourages the younger generation to get involved and build something. With more expensive housing and limited possibilities for a good pension I do fear for the future of the hobby and for the young in general.
:thumbright: I agree. Thomas probably accounts for a lot of people getting interested in railways. We hold Thomas events on the Preserved railway where I volunteer. While not popular amongst "serious" enthusiasts, they, along with Santa's, are extremely popular. I will support whatever encourages interest in full sized or model railways. The young are our future.
Ian

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by FWLR » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:53 am

bazzer42 wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:51 am
Perhaps it was always that way but with more expensive housing and limited possibilities for a good pension I do fear for the future of the hobby and for the young in general.

If my grandson shows a glimmer of interest he's doomed :D
Pension Derek, what pension…most of us when we were younger thought has they do now…”Why do I need to save for a pension” But I do have a modest private pension, that is keeping us afloat, until Anne retires and then….well, we will just have to go with the flow…. :thumbright: :thumbright:

Our Grandsons, especially the eldest, loves going to run his little Pickup and now running my live steamer whenever he comes round, sadly not enough for our liking though.

Just had a thought :idea: I need to check the batteries in the electric locos………!!!

bazzer42
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:37 pm
Location: Forest of Dean

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by bazzer42 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:35 pm

FWLR wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:53 am Pension Derek, what pension…most of us when we were younger thought has they do now…”Why do I need to save for a pension” But I do have a modest private pension, that is keeping us afloat, until Anne retires and then….well, we will just have to go with the flow….
I am very, very lucky to have been made redundant from local government at age 56 - good old govt cutbacks. The Council as I left, and has now finished, was moving staff into a limited company so that any new staff get a crap pension. Existing employees are protected but any youngster coming in....

When I started in local government the two old guys opposite kept on and on about their pension...see why now.!

PS cross threading - What's brown and sticky? ----- a stick!

Tingewickmax
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:42 pm

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by Tingewickmax » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm

bazzer42 wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:35 pm
FWLR wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:53 am Pension Derek, what pension…most of us when we were younger thought has they do now…”Why do I need to save for a pension” But I do have a modest private pension, that is keeping us afloat, until Anne retires and then….well, we will just have to go with the flow….
I am very, very lucky to have been made redundant from local government at age 56 - good old govt cutbacks. The Council as I left, and has now finished, was moving staff into a limited company so that any new staff get a crap pension. Existing employees are protected but any youngster coming in....

When I started in local government the two old guys opposite kept on and on about their pension...see why now.!

PS cross threading - What's brown and sticky? ----- a stick!
Same is happening in the commercial world too. Defined benefit pensions cut for defined contribution. About half the payout for the same investment = deffered income paycut. Never mind the wage stagnation of the past decade. Don't forget the large swathes of middle income jobs dissapearing to be replaced by lower income ones and/or underemployment due to modern information technology and automation. These personnel and income groups are the seedbed for ours and other hobbies, not to mention those who might volenteer their time for preservation railways and other activities. The future does not bode well.

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by FWLR » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:49 am

Tingewickmax wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:45 pm
bazzer42 wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:35 pm
FWLR wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:53 am Pension Derek, what pension…most of us when we were younger thought has they do now…”Why do I need to save for a pension” But I do have a modest private pension, that is keeping us afloat, until Anne retires and then….well, we will just have to go with the flow….
I am very, very lucky to have been made redundant from local government at age 56 - good old govt cutbacks. The Council as I left, and has now finished, was moving staff into a limited company so that any new staff get a crap pension. Existing employees are protected but any youngster coming in....

When I started in local government the two old guys opposite kept on and on about their pension...see why now.!

PS cross threading - What's brown and sticky? ----- a stick!
These personnel and income groups are the seedbed for ours and other hobbies, not to mention those who might volenteer their time for preservation railways and other activities. The future does not bode well.
But it’s the volunteers that are keeping the preservation railways going, that are keeping the youngsters interested in model railways. :thumbright:

My own Grandkids were going to see steam trains before I was getting involved with model rail, so every time Anne and I go to a heritage railway we buy or give has much as we can to help them in their ongoing efforts to keep them open and more importantly…running. :thumbright: :thumbright:

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by IanC » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:18 am

FWLR wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:49 am
But it’s the volunteers that are keeping the preservation railways going, that are keeping the youngsters interested in model railways. :thumbright:

My own Grandkids were going to see steam trains before I was getting involved with model rail, so every time Anne and I go to a heritage railway we buy or give has much as we can to help them in their ongoing efforts to keep them open and more importantly…running. :thumbright: :thumbright:
As a volunteer I can confirm Rod is correct. In the preservation world, most railways would not exist without volunteers. If they used paid staff they would be very different to what we have these days.

Ian
Ian

User avatar
Soar Valley Light
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
Location: North West Leicestershire

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by Soar Valley Light » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:40 pm

Ian makes a valid point. However, with the possible exception of the Paignton and Dartmouth and possibly the Welsh Highland and Ffestiniog, I don't believe ANY, could survive without their volunteer labour force. At least not for very long. It's hard enough as it is with increasing amounts of repair and maintenance of all aspects of railways now going out to commercial firms because there aren't enough volunteers to do the 'dirty work'. We desperately need to encourage more youth into preservation in all areas and particularly the support functions. It's bad enough in the operating grades but the engineering departments are almost non existent on some lines! Average ages in many departments on many railways are between 50 and 60!

Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

User avatar
IanC
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:15 am
Location: Nr. Warrington, Cheshire

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by IanC » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:45 pm

Soar Valley Light wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:40 pm Ian makes a valid point. However, with the possible exception of the Paignton and Dartmouth and possibly the Welsh Highland and Ffestiniog, I don't believe ANY, could survive without their volunteer labour force. At least not for very long. It's hard enough as it is with increasing amounts of repair and maintenance of all aspects of railways now going out to commercial firms because there aren't enough volunteers to do the 'dirty work'. We desperately need to encourage more youth into preservation in all areas and particularly the support functions. It's bad enough in the operating grades but the engineering departments are almost non existent on some lines! Average ages in many departments on many railways are between 50 and 60!

Andrew
The average age on the P. Way department on the railway where I volunteer is, I believe, 70!

Andrew is right. Without fresh young blood into the movement the future is not great.

Ian
Ian

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by FWLR » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:14 am

You are missing the point….get young kids involved with model railways no matter what scale and they will go into volunteering or at least helping out on heritage railways. Look at the North Yorkshire Railway and there are a lot of young people on it, even the guy who runs the maintaince department and general running of it has been there since leaving school, I think he started helping out and now works for them full time.

So it is possible to get young blood into looking after heritage railways by encouraging them into model railways.

Tingewickmax
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:42 pm

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by Tingewickmax » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:15 am

Nearly all railway preservation enterprises will have at their core a group of skilled salaried employees to a greater or lesser extent. However, even the largest and most high profile groups will rely on ready and willing volunteers for labour and also a base of supporters that will also provide essential additional financial support for both day to day running and larger development projects. This was thrown into very clear perspective to me at the recent "Snowdonian" outing on the WHR/Festiniog.

No matter how many people you attract at a young age through exposure to hobbies like ours or more direct involvement in the railways, as careers, you will still require that base of individuals with either the spare capital, disposable income and time availability to support them. The point I made is that those 3 mentioned elements will become somewhat scarcer given what we see happening in this country to peoples work and pensions expectations.

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by ge_rik » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:20 am

Not entirely relevant but somehow this discussion reminded me of this wonderful rewrite



I was more a child of the fifties and sixties, but much of it is nostalgic.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by FWLR » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:29 am

Very good Rik, shows to me that things change all the time.

Young people get old… :thumbright:

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:28 am

Although I can remember half the things in the video this is going a bit off topic now so I will reign it back in with the following.

Trains for me started with Hornby in the 80's and even though my folks got me into Thomas the Tank Engine it was purely about just playing trains with no interest in the prototype.

As for volunteer work us younger folk don't have the energy with modern life, families and stress of work. The one time I did approach a railway I was met with a very closed community so I didn't bother investigating further.

These preserved lines will only stay open by bringing in new blood with properly paid apprenticeships leading to a full time job. Had this been an option for me when leaving school I would of jumped at the opportunity.

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by FWLR » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:08 am

I totally agree with you Tom on our kids playing with Thomas and other model trains, I suppose I did have an interest when I had an OO gauge at age 10, flipping heck 56years ago now, but I didn’t carry it on because of other interests, my running + football playing for my town and county.

I think you may well have had a bad experience with the railway you approached, but the local one to me have always encouraged people to go along and help out.

https://ribblesteam.org.uk

It doesn’t have a really long line but it does have some very interesting Locos. :thumbright: :thumbright:

bazzer42
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:37 pm
Location: Forest of Dean

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by bazzer42 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:44 am

Coming right back on thread in my pure 4mm days I regarded 009 as toy trains and garden railways as odd. Any 16mm stand or 009 railway layout exhibition would have been ignored or at best given a 5 second glance. In those days I was adding little handrails to Lima diesels and garden railways didn't appear to have detail.

I will confess that I 009 still doesn't appeal but 0 16.5 upwards does as a layout scale.

It was only through a Playmobil train set for my boys did I appreciate the opportunities of the garden. I can honestly say, with perhaps less than 15 years of good modelling ahead, I really wish I had started in the garden earlier.

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by ge_rik » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:06 pm

I've said it before in another thread, but the attraction for me of 16mm scale in the garden is watching a train threading its way through a real landscape. There's something really evocative about seeing railway lines threading through natural vegetation. I've no idea why, but this notion has always attracted me. What inspired me to build a garden railway was initially Don Neale's wonderful Gauge 1 layout and then the Rev Peter Denny's Trepolpen Light Railway - a narrow gauge clockwork powered garden railway. If it's outdoors, it has to be larger scale to my mind. I did dabble with 00 outdoors very briefly, but it was too much hassle.

I have no idea if other modellers disparage 16mm scale - and to be honest it doesn't bother me in the slightest if they do. I know how much enjoyment I get out of my garden railway modelling.

Ooops, getting a bit too contemplative. Must get back to rubbing down my latest loco build.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
FWLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:45 am
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by FWLR » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:07 am

ge_rik wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:06 pm

I have no idea if other modellers disparage 16mm scale - and to be honest it doesn't bother me in the slightest if they do. I know how much enjoyment I get out of my garden railway modelling.


Rik
Same for me Rik, I watched youtube videos and saw them running with smoke puffing out and the diesels were pulling some serious weight, has where the live steam and I thought, along with the heat in the shed when it was hot outside, that 16mm was for me.

Tingewickmax
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:42 pm

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by Tingewickmax » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:37 am

FWLR wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:07 am
ge_rik wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:06 pm I have no idea if other modellers disparage 16mm scale - and to be honest it doesn't bother me in the slightest if they do. I know how much enjoyment I get out of my garden railway modelling. Rik
Same for me Rik, I watched youtube videos and saw them running with smoke puffing out and the diesels were pulling some serious weight, has where the live steam and I thought, along with the heat in the shed when it was hot outside, that 16mm was for me.
Or you can have the best of all worlds - 16 mm (UK & colonial) & 15 mm (D&RGW/Logging). DC, Battery & Live steam. I think you will find that I does not matter what you are into, someone who isn't but in a related field will find a way to belittle or dismiss your particular interests.

Now those people who model 7/8 ths scale on 45 mm gauge, what's that all about............... :lol:

bazzer42
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:37 pm
Location: Forest of Dean

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by bazzer42 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:10 am

[quote=Tingewickmax post_id=135799 time=1525073841 user_id=2037]



Now those people who model 7/8 ths scale on 45 mm gauge, what's that all about............... :lol:
[/quote ]

Lucky this is a friendly forum or you would be cruisin for a bruisin, unless you're bigger than me.... :D :D

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 16mm and its relationship with other scales

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:14 am

Had I know about 7/8ths I would of done that over 16mm as it's bigger but too invested in 16mm now.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests