16mm and its relationship with other scales

[Keith S]

There are many in 16mm who do the same thing.

As commented on by a fellow 16mm NGM member last week regarding some of running in the latest 16mm NGM DVD - I was very conscientiously running my Roundhouse Alco at a typical scale snail speed as he was videoing it close in.

Chris Cairns

I did try to select the best footage in that regards this year and I feel that we are slowly getting there!

The "momentum" vans and "Slomo" devices gaining popularity really make a difference in this regard.

For me it's all about steam. It's the difference between a convincing fake and a real train, as far as I'm concerned. You can glue little puffs of green-dyed foam rubber to a twig and call it a tree, if you like, or you can have a real tree. For me it's the same thing with the trains. The non-functioning scale details are all just gingerbread.

[LNR]

I totally agree with you Keith, even though I have glued pieces of green stuff on branches and called them trees. All scales have their pro's and cons and an objective for being. For me though, you can't beat real hot oily live steam, on the road, rails or water.
Grant.

[Killian Keane]

I share that sentiment also! I wouldn't have got into 16mm if it were all electrickery, steam is steam and nothing can imitate it

[artfull dodger]

The sounds, smells/aroma that live steam brings to a garden railway is, to me what brings it alive. Roundhouse uses this in thier advertising as Living Steam Railways. Even standing still, a steam engine is alive with all kinds of sounds and smells. Even though most of us lack the aroma of a coal fire, the rest of the associated smells are there. And a piece of hard coal in the bottom of the smoke box, will give off some slight aroma without actually burning, and it will absorb some of the oil and gunk from the exhaust. If I manage to sell my two engines and down size to a RH Katie, I believe I will fit a Slomo to her and leave her manually controled. Only batteries being in the lantern on the front or rear of the engine. Cheers Mike

[Keith S]

As my father does very clever models in "HO" scale, I appreciate the trains and the modelling. But as for me personally, the only reason there is a train in my house is that it's a steam train. I enjoy steam powered equipment, and when it comes to "playing" with steam models, the train is the easiest, because it will follow some tracks and presumably look after itself, as opposed to boats and traction engines, which require active steering. And I like things that move, so even though I appreciate stationary engines, I don't tend to want to play with them.

However, now that I have a steam-driven train, I am starting to enjoy bolting details onto the locomotive and I like the colourful wagons and coaches. I even bought a semaphore signal kit at the AGM, so perhaps I am getting a little deeper into "model railways" than I had intended. No harm in making it all look convincing is there?

[IrishPeter]

I have more honest enthusiasm for my Millie plodding along at something like a scale 15mph with three wagons, a coach, and brake van on the hook on the Skebawn and Castleknox Tramway than ever I had for any of my OO efforts. There is something very absorbing about the whole process of running live steam on a 15/16mm scale line - you don't just flick a switch and go. She has to be cleaned, oiled, fuelled and watered; lit and allowed to boil; then there is the ceremony of clearing the cylinders of condensate, and then you are ready to go. It is a lot more total immersion than the smaller scales. Then at the end of the run, you have to put up locomotive, or refuel, etc., for the next run.

There is also the element of experiment - the "how can I represent X, or get Y to do Z" side of things. Personally, I loathe electronics, so I will tinker about with weighted levers, bell cranks, rodding, and all the paraphernalia of old school manual signalling rather than use point/signal motors. Another 16mm guy will embrace the electronics and tell you how to get the proper bounce into a semaphore signal using such and such a piece of electrickery, and operate off his R/C unit. It is a trivial example, but it does represent the sort of healthy eccentricity that seems to be so much of the Garden Railway/16mm scene. I certainly find it a very satisfying way of 'playing with trains,' rather than merely 'playing trains.'

Peter in VA

[Killian Keane]

Interesting to note that a typical 16mm wagon kit costs about the same as a 00 gauge wagon which costs the same as an n gauge wagon, as 16mm is 8 times the scale of n gauge, I rather fancy thats better value

[FWLR]

Being new to 16mm i can see what most members are saying about the smaller scales, however has i have said in my introduction to the forum, i have nothing against other gauges one bit, i see it has everyone is running trains however they run them, wether that is live steam, battery or mains. Every scale has it’s place in model rail, because even if you say garden rail is not modelling like the smaller scales or gauges however you want to portray the gauge, it is modelling, unless you can afford to run the original gauge ( you know like a Scotsman or similar ) we all model trains. I do love running my N Gauge 2mm scale layout, has i now can’t wait to run my 16mm/32mm locos, even if they are not live steam or resemble a steamer or diesel, the fascination for me is railways has a whole. I love steam of any ilk and while diesel doesn’t do a lot for me, i do appreciate the power they have, so yes i run them on my N Gauge.

But the main thing is, lets relax and enjoy the hobby, because that’s what it is really, a hobby, no matter how you run it.

[listerboy]

My experience at the weekend seems to reinforce my original post. As some of will know I was due to exhibit at the North Down Model Show in Bangor, N Ireland. I had booked 3 tables, which had disappeared prior to my attempted set up on Saturday morning. Some tables were acquired, but not enough to cover what I had requested, so I couldn't run trains.

I'm still waiting for a reply to my email to the show director.

[Big Jim]

I would be interested to hear what their response is.

Perhaps it is more to do with bad organisation rather than a perceived snobbishness, although I do think this happens occasionally.

An example of snobbiness was seen many years ago when I was involved with the Brambleton Exhibition. We had a chap exhibit a wonderful Thomas layout one year, quite a size and very well detailed with some highly skilled modelling evident. The younger visitors (future of the hobby) and many adults thought it was great. This did not stop disparaging comments from some adults who seemed to feel that it was a OO scale aberration and sin against nature. One caught me at just the wrong moment to complain and got the hair dryer treatment.

While not a running layout, your display did look good though. Better luck next year.

[listerboy]

Thanks Big Jim! Although to be honest my faith in exhibiting there has taken a hit. I wouldn't have a problem with a Thomas layout like you describe, if it interests the children, possibly even an adult, it can't be a bad thing.

I will hopefully be exhibiting at the Cultra model railway day in November. I've always liked that as I should be surrounded by Donegal Railway vehicles!

[Tingewickmax]

It seems in all of human endeavours that given a chance there will always be one or more who will cause a schism. Luckily I'm a member of a 16 mm group who have very wide ranging tastes - 32/45 mm gauges, 7/8"inch/15/16 mm/1:22.5/24 scales, prototypical/freelance, battery/gas/coal power, steam/electric/diesel/whimsical outline, manual/RC.........You get the picture, we just love running trains in the garden......and village halls and...... Somehow we all manage to rub along quite nicely. Well at least till I get my 1:20.3 3 cylinder Shay steamer out. Everybody hates that one as it goes round and round and round so s-l-o-w-l-y. Oh, and I do DC too on my line, Heretic !

[invicta280]

I have a 00 layout in the loft-or to be precise am in the process of rebuilding one. I am becoming increasingly fond of my old Hornby Dublo and Triang models which seem to have so much character and remind me of my youth. Also, they can be bought for reasonable prices on ebay. I have some modern Bachmann etc too but I now refuse to pay ridiculously inflated prices. I know they are more accurate to scale etc but the old stuff just seems so robust and the locos will pull anything. I'm not tempted by DCC ( or anything digital) and my old fashioned diesels emit a lovely growl so who needs soundcards?! It's only for fun anyway!
At heart I am an outdoor person, and my wife and myself love working in the garden, so with live steam as an added bonus it's not surprising that most of my effort currently goes into building a 16mm line. Currently got 10 metres of trackbed prepared for tracklaying, now for the straight section behind the pond....

[artfull dodger]

We so need a "like" button on this forum. Several posts needed one! I have owned several different live steamers, from several major brands including a couple gauge 1 Aster engines. But I have gotten the most enjoyment from the 2 engines I have now, an LGB/Aster Frank S to go with my LGB narrow gauge European wagons and coaches, and my Roundhouse Bertie that I sold and regretted, and then just bought back. Sometimes the simple engines are the most fun. Heck, lot of guys/gals have lot of fun with Mamod/MSS engines despite thier short comings. While I long to do 32mm gauge, my choice in engines are not regaugeable, and most every line I run on is 45mm as that track is the easiest to come by in the USA. But just like any other scale or hobby, just have fun and not let others dictate how you enjoy your hobby. Every hobby has its snobs, be it model trains or my antique garden tractors. And I have told off guys in both hobbys. If they do not like it, move on as your comments are not welcome. Rule number 1, its my railway/tractor, rule 2, if in doubt, refer back to rule number 1! Mike the Aspie

[Peter Butler]

We so need a "like" button on this forum.

NO...NO...NO... never! We need sensible communication and response to posts, not the simplicity to say 'like'..... that is the end of conversation!

[Killian Keane]

I've just seen an advert for accurascale, who are offering 3 wagons for £60, now their level of detail is extraordinary, graduations legible on gauges etc, but at any normal exhibition who would be able to see such detail? Don't get me wrong, fantastic to see such detail but for the same price I reckon I could build 6 16mm scale wagons i.e twice as many wagons, four times the size

[gregh]

NO...NO...NO... never! We need sensible communication and response to posts, not the simplicity to say 'like'..... that is the end of conversation!

I agree absolutely.

[philipy]

We so need a "like" button on this forum.

NO...NO...NO... never! We need sensible communication and response to posts, not the simplicity to say 'like'..... that is the end of conversation!

I agree with both of you!!
Seriously, there are quite often posts that I agree with or can relate too, but it isn't worth clogging up the board with a "me too" post that actually contributes nothing, so I do nothing. A "like" button would solve that for me. OTOH I agree that one of the beauties of this forum is the wide ranging discussions that go on - even if they sometimes go a little ( a lot?) off topic and drive Tom nuts!

[FWLR]

We so need a "like" button on this forum.

NO...NO...NO... never! We need sensible communication and response to posts, not the simplicity to say 'like'..... that is the end of conversation!

I agree with Peter and others…No “Like” button for me.

On the subject of snobbishness, I was at a local N Gauge show last year and there was a guy showing a Thomas layout and the amount of negative comment he received was awful to say the least. Model trains are model trains no matter what gauge or scale, can’t understand some people at all when they say that’s not a proper model.

[tom_tom_go]

When this forum was hosted by myfreeforum.org they added the Facebook 'Like' feature to posts and I remember most members kicking off saying they didn't want it.