Taking models on an aeroplane, and the Peterborough show

Anything related to the garden railway world that is not catered for in another board
User avatar
Keith S
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:44 pm
Location: Canada

Taking models on an aeroplane, and the Peterborough show

Post by Keith S » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:33 am

Hi everybody,

I have an odd question- has anyone ever tried taking a model steam engine on an aeroplane as hand-luggage, in a box? I am considering bringing my "Billy" to England, or at least I would really like to, so I can run it on a club track should I happen to be at one at an "open day" or something.

I know it sounds silly but you see I don't have a railway and it would be fun for me to run my engine on one in its native habitat. I am sure someone would let me run theirs, but well I'm rather fond of mine, and I would like to see it run on a real garden railway.

Also, I am planning to go to Peterborough on April 8th, and although I am a member of the 16mm association, obviously I am not a member of a group. Would I be able to run my engine on a club exhibition layout, or do they not allow strangers? I suppose they probably don't. I've never been to a show- I don't know what it's like. I'm sure many people on this forum are going-maybe I will see some of you there!

If anyone has ever taken an engine on an aeroplane, I'd like to hear if it's reasonable to expect I would be allowed to do so. I'm worried because it is the kind of thing that would look scary to a security chap- metal tubes and bits of plumbing. I wouldn't want to have to surrender it and have some CATSA man's kid get my steam engine for next Christmas.

DLRdan
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:05 am
Location: Blyth
Contact:

Post by DLRdan » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:53 am

I've never heard of anyone taking one as hand luggage though I think the words gas tank might cause the issue. As for running on a layout you can always Email the show director and see if he can be of help, I think its possible to book slots on the modular layout to run but check first.
Dan,

James: "Dan, can you use your hearing and tell me if that trains coming ?"
DLR
www.freewebs.com/dlrail

big-ted
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:13 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada.

Post by big-ted » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:55 pm

Based on my experience flying with an unbuilt Roundhouse kit in my hand luggage:

1) Be prepared to unpack the loco every time your bag goes through x-ray

2) Expect to have to prove that both the boiler and gas tank are de-pressurised, empty, and not sealed. This is easy enough with the boiler, by just leaving the filler and safety valve unscrewed. The gas tank, as mentioned above, might be trickier. None of the security checks rummaged through my boxes enough to find the gas tank...

3) You wont be able to bring gas on the plane, either in your hand luggage, or the hold, so expect to have to buy some in the UK and leave it when you return home.

4) Keep all associated tools in your hold bag. I also had the Roundhouse multi-tool in with my kit and I almost had to leave it in Europe. One of the guys at the x-ray machine, upon doing the secondary search found it and ordered me to return and check it into the hold. It was too late to do so, so instead I returned to the check in floor, removed all the driver bits, packed them separately, re-packed the handle underneath a few other bits, and went through a different x-ray line. Second time's a charm!

5) If possible, bring the original receipt with you and proof you're going to the Peterborough show. It will help if you can prove you're not buying or selling the loco as part of your trip so you are not asked to pay customs.

6) Explaining what it is should be a lot easier for a built loco than my box of parts. Often it was only when the officers found the wheels that they put faith in my telling them that what was in the boxes was 'parts for a model train.'

All that said, I didn't really have any problems. Just expect security checks to take a little longer and plan accordingly.

User avatar
Killian Keane
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:17 pm

Post by Killian Keane » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:05 pm

Was it Peter Jones that once ran a live steam train whilst aboard a flight underway?
Blokes with tea can build anything

User avatar
MDLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4027
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Near Ripley, Derbyshire, UK
Contact:

Post by MDLR » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:40 pm

I think big-ted's got it in a nutshell............. I'm positive you'll be more than welcome to run at Peterborough, particularly when you say where you've come from. If you've never been to a Show before, I'll look out for the fella wandering around with that "what-the-hell-have-I-let-myself-in-for" look on his face, because matey, you are going to be blown away!
Brian L Dominic
Managing Director
Flagg Fluorspar Co
www.mdlr.co.uk/ff.html

User avatar
laurence703
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: Lost

Post by laurence703 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:50 pm

MDLR:123192 wrote:I'll look out for the fella wandering around with that "what-the-hell-have-I-let-myself-in-for" look on his face, because matey, you are going to be blown away!
That'll be me... same face I have on every year from 7am when I arrive on the Friday to 7ish Saturday evening when I'm locking up...
No one expects the SPANISH ACQUISITION!!!

User avatar
Keith S
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:44 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Keith S » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:06 am

I'll come by your table to say hello, Brian, it sounds like you'll be busy! I haven't decided whether to bring the engine or not- I'd like to, I'm proud of it, and nobody who would appreciate the work that went into it has ever seen it. Also I would like to say it has run in England. I don't know why, but it would be nice. I appreciate all the advice. The advantage, like you say, big Ted, is that it looks just like a "toy train" so might be recognized as innocuous by security people.

In any case, I will be there. I've booked the time off work, and I will be separating myself from a busy schedule of drinking beer with my friends and family in London to spend the night prior to and the night after the show in Peterborough. I am very excited. My wife thinks I am a "very odd man". Well, she won't be there will she?

User avatar
Chris Cairns
Driver
Driver
Posts: 2364
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post by Chris Cairns » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:02 pm

Hi Keith,

This subject was discussed late last year on the 16mmngm Yahoo group. Summary -

Only carry loco in hand luggage/carry on.
Empty lubricator.
Empty boiler.
Empty gas tank.
Clean running gear of excess lubricant.
Remove Ronson gas filler valve, and appropriate boiler fittings (safety valve, water filling valve, etc.).
Thoroughly clean the locomotive.
No tools in your hand luggage.
Do not refer to the locomotive as live steam, just call it a toy train.
Ask your Host to provide fuel, steam oil, etc.

Have a Plan B in place just in case Security refuse it on-board.

Chris Cairns

User avatar
Keith S
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:44 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Keith S » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:56 am

Thanks, Chris. I was thinking the same thing: "oh, this? This is my toy train."

Stupid question: how does one remove the Ronson valve?

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Post by GTB » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:54 am

Keith S:123317 wrote:Stupid question: how does one remove the Ronson valve?
Not a stupid question......

The Roundhouse Multi-Tool has a bit for removing gas filler valves, but basically all you need is find a suitable size screwdriver and file a notch in the end to clear the centre of the valve. There's an illustration on this link that will give you the idea.

[link]http://www.argyleloco.com.au/MultiTool.pdf[/link]

It is possible to remove gas fillers with needle nosed pliers as a last resort, but the results won't be pretty.

No idea of how it works in Canada, or the UK, but here in Aust. if I'm carrying anything unusual in cabin luggage I tell security what is in the bag and ask for a manual check. Quicker than having the x-ray operator raise his eyebrows and call over the supervisor........

Regards,
Graeme

User avatar
Keith S
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:44 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Keith S » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:19 pm

Thanks, Graeme, I do have lots of screwdrivers I can modify.

I am very much on the fence with regards to bringing my engine. On the one hand it would be very entertaining to be able to bring my own work with me when meeting other club members for the first time and playing trains with them. On the other hand, it's not such a remarkable locomotive- you probably won't be able to swing a dead cat at the exhibition without striking another Roundhouse Billy (although I am proud of the modified bodywork) and also it's not really an "open day"... I'm sure everyone will be very nice but I would still be imposing somewhat. A characteristic of my nationality is that we like to pass unnoticed and not bother anyone.

It's difficult to make my mind up. I have always wanted to run my engine on a proper railway and talk about it with other people. My friends in Canada think it's an odd thing to have built, and running it and building wagons for it is a solitary pursuit. That's why I'm looking forward to the show and that's why I would like to bring something to it.

What to do...

cheshire
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:45 pm

Post by cheshire » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:32 pm

At the risk of seeming like I know what I am talking about (a dangerous idea!!) I work as a long haul pilot flying trans atlantic. Security can be extremely temperamental at times, both side of the pond. If they confiscate the item they do not have to let you take it with you in another way, such as the hold, and can have it destroyed. Most would be reasonable, but some are more power hungry. I have argued for 10 minutes that I didnt have a bottle of water that I was trying to smuggle through. It turned out to be a torch. They then tried for ages to confiscate my torch!! It might be hard proving there was no gas left in it. You know its empty, but you would have to convince them its empty! Personally I wouldnt risk it, just in case the worst happened. Anyway, enjoy the trip.

Wallace
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:30 am
Location: Nottingham

Post by Wallace » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:06 pm

My dad took a small toy steam engine to the Lake Goldsmith Rally in Australia a few years ago. He had no trouble with customs, people were more interested in what it was rather than any threat- especially as it was in a wooden packing case that I had made when I was little!
Just don't try and take oils or fuel(!) with you and you should be fine.

Danny

User avatar
MDLR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4027
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:38 pm
Location: Near Ripley, Derbyshire, UK
Contact:

Post by MDLR » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:38 pm

Keith S:123327 wrote:I am very much on the fence with regards to bringing my engine. On the one hand it would be very entertaining to be able to bring my own work with me when meeting other club members for the first time and playing trains with them. On the other hand, it's not such a remarkable locomotive- you probably won't be able to swing a dead cat at the exhibition without striking another Roundhouse Billy (although I am proud of the modified bodywork) and also it's not really an "open day"... I'm sure everyone will be very nice but I would still be imposing somewhat.
You will NOT be "imposing" as you put it. Most layout operators will willingly make a slot for you (so long as you sort it early) and if you can overcome your natural inclination to sink into the background and tell them how many thousand miles you've travelled to be there, they'll welcome you with open arms!
Brian L Dominic
Managing Director
Flagg Fluorspar Co
www.mdlr.co.uk/ff.html

User avatar
LNR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:26 am
Location: Australia

Post by LNR » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:56 pm

My dad took a small toy steam engine to the Lake Goldsmith Rally in Australia a few years ago.
Hope your Dad enjoyed his trip to Lake Goldsmith, it's a great Rally set out in the middle of nowhere, but very friendly.
Grant.

User avatar
Keith S
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:44 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Keith S » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:24 am

Well, thanks for all the advice guys. I'm a jet pilot too (short haul) so I am a little familiar with the different temperaments of various security people, although I have yet to meet one who is truly miserable.

I will give it a good think and see if I have time to construct a stout but harmless-looking box beforehand?

Whether I bring the locomotive or not, I am sure I will make new friends and be very excited to meet those of you whose names I recognize. If you see a tall, 40-ish, bewildered man with brown hair and a colonial accent, that will probably be me. I will be haunting the layouts with live-steam engines and shopping for little 16mm passengers.

Thanks for the reassurance, Brian. I will make a point of introducing myself when I see you there. I've seen a couple of your pictures in garden railway magazines so I am sure I will recognize you!

User avatar
Gralyn
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:29 pm
Location: Stockport, United Kingdom
Contact:

Post by Gralyn » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:04 am

Ask for Graham on the Timpdon Lake Layout. If A Regner Vincent is running I will definitely be there rather than on a break.
Regards Graham.

User avatar
laurence703
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: Lost

Post by laurence703 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:06 am

I'll be the youngish gent wondering around in a Blue Hi Vis... I may also be seen on the modular if I get the time...
No one expects the SPANISH ACQUISITION!!!

Ron Chatt
New User
New User
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:40 am
Location: Australia

Post by Ron Chatt » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:05 am

First thing has this loco been fired.
if it has, my advice would be do not even think about risking it
About 5 years ago I brought a Roundhouse chassis boiler unit
back from UK to Australia via Ireland in my hand luggage as I was
over weight in my booked luggage. it was checked for explosives iat
Manchester Dublin Paris and China. when I asked, I was told if it
tested for Gas Gas residue or Burned gas residue . I would never
seen it again ..
Ron

User avatar
Keith S
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1624
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:44 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Keith S » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:10 am

Right then. I have decided not to do it. The last thing I want to do is suffer through the aftermath of the stink I would kick up if they tried to confiscate it. Not being allowed on an aeroplane is one thing, but someone thinking they have the right to take your property and not give it back makes me furious. I'm just going to go and enjoy other people's steam engines. Pity though, I would have liked to play with my engine on a proper railway some day.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests