16mm NGM East of Scotland Group Modular Layout

[Chris Cairns]

Taking advantage of the Scotrail Club 55 promotion (£19 return, not £15 as quoted in the Railway Magazine October 2014!) I travelled to Dundee last Saturday to join the members of the 16mm East of Scotland Group running on their new modular layout (as featured on Page 35 of the August 2014 16mm Bulletin) at the Dundee Model Railway Show. Unfortunately I had mislaid my camera's memory card so only have these low res mobile phone images instead.



You could be forgiven for thinking that this venue was very popular with the long queues, but this is us waiting to get back in after the Fire Alarm went off just before midday. It did go off a couple more times in the afternoon but was gagged before Scottish Fire & Rescue attended again!

The layout has been built to the original 16mm spec which had a lower operating height, so that it can still be operated by wheelchair/mobility scooter bound operators (the Group has one such member with a 2nd member occasionally requiring a wheelchair). Currently the modular layout is a long straight until some members build the corner sections.



The fiddle yard

Note the extended R/C aerial sticking out into the public side of the layout as the operator is coupling up his loco having run round the stock. I took a turn at yard shunter here to avoid this situation (uncoupling/coupling the stock, and operating the traverser for the R/C operators) and also did it when I was the signaller there. But that was not always convenient when another train was asking for the Line Clear signal from the other end.





At one end there is a 3 sided walled-in 4 road fiddle yard with a beautifully constructed traverser at the end. This has been made from a recycled redundant trackside sign, with Tenmille rail chairs & rail, Meccano pulleys, axles & brackets, which smoothly running along the OO gauge track beneath, and has a manually operated lock.



The arched exit/entrance to the fiddle yard



The intermediate halt which was not used by many passenger trains

From here the track goes through modules with an intermediate halt built on S curves. This was to cause gauging problems with Accucraft IOM 4 wheel coaches. The scenery panels were lifted out of there mounting holes to allow those coaches to run, but at some point during the day someone (probably the somewhat fussy owner of the modules) had replaced the scenery back into their holes with the result that the Ragleth pulling those IOM coaches ground to a halt with those coaches firmly stuck.

Next down the line is an intermediate siding, being used to store extra stock, and then the line continues into the end modules with a 2 road island platform station, an avoiding line with 2 storage sidings, and those 3 lines terminate at a turntable (manually operated), again built from a recycled redundant sign.



The signal box controlling the station area (the newly installed HGLW trackside fencing just appears centre left edge)



One of the station storage sidings



The turntable

To allow continuous running throughout the show the layout had an allocated slot booking system (max 2 steam locos at any time), and operated a buzzer ‘bell’ signal system, at least when there were 2 signallers (1 available at each end). Otherwise it was down to the ‘One loco in steam’ or anything goes rule. All locomotives (Steam & Battery) running were Radio Control except for one manual steam locomotive. Several of the steam locomotives were Roundhouse, with 3 different vintage Lady Anne’s. However it was good to compare notes with a fellow Accucraft Ragleth operator, particularly seeing how little he opened the regulator with Radio Control on the reverser, plus it had an R/C controlled DJB Eng whistle which sounded good when the pressure was up.

At the far end of the layout beyond the station modules was another table where 2 loose panels of track were being used to store after running/prepare for next run steam locomotives.

David Hippey (www.hglw.co.uk) arrived in the afternoon and brought some of his latest project to enhance the layout – laser cut trackside & station fencing.

The Group managed to attract a couple of potential new members.

A very enjoyable day out running & talking live steam finished off with a train ride southbound into a nice sunset.

Chris Cairns

(edit - forgot Group in Subject title)

[Dr. Bond of the DVLR]

What an interesting layout. I like the sound of the bell/buzzers - where they operating with proper bell codes or some local variant?

[Chris Cairns]

where they operating with proper bell codes or some local variant?

Yes.

I was told that Peter Kinnear's garden railway is an out & back one where the other 2 stations are not visible. So this intercom based system is used, including the voice facility when necessary.

I did not take a photo of the codes being used, and was told they were slightly different from the ones normally used on Peter's railway (they had just been written up on the day after the intercom system had been installed).

If I recall correctly -

1 - Call/Go ahead
2 then 1 - Is Line Clear?
3 then 1 - Line is Clear
1 then 3 - Train dispatched
1 then 2 - Train received
2 - Line blocked

It was not alway easy to hear the buzzer (particularly when the Centre's tannoy was being used), and there was no code for Say Again/Repeat when you received an unrecognisable code - some members were very quick with their buzzing! The alternative of using colour light signals was also discussed.

I admit to being a bit sceptical at first (there was a token as well at first but that was soon dropped due to the long walk to each end) but I got into the spirit of it as the day progressed. Does highlight that running an out & back layout can be more labour intensive than a continuous loop layout.

Chris Cairns

[MDLR]

I've got this lot...................

1 Call Attention

3 Is line clear for Mixed Train
4 " " Passenger Train
3-1-3 " " Diesel Railbus/Railcar
4-4-4 " " Mail/Parcel/Newspaper Train
2-2-1 " " Empty Passenger Stock Train
2-2-3 " " Engineers'/Officer's Train
5 " " Fitted Freight Train
3-1-1 “ ” “ Piped express freight, perishables, livestock with 50% auto
brakes
3-2 " " Unfitted Freight Train
4-1 " " Empty Freight Stock
4-2 “ ” Electric express passenger
3-1-2 “ ” “ " ordinary "
2-1-2 “ ” “ Trolley needing to go into or pass through a tunnel
2-3 " " Light Engine
1-1-3 " " Light Engine(s) and Brake Van(s)

2 Train Entering Section
2-1 Train Out of Section
1-2-1 Train Approaching
1-4 Line Blocked
3-5-5 Line Clear, Station Blocked

6 Obstruction Danger
7 Stop and Examine
9 Train Passed Without Tail Lamp
5-5 Train Divided

6-2 Train an Unusually Long Time in Section
3-5 Cancel Last Message
4-3 Repeat Last Message
5-3 Last Train Incorrectly Described

5-5-5 Opening Box
7-5-5 Closing Box
16 Consecutively TESTING BELLS AND INSTRUMENTS!!

[Andrew]

All that lot - for Flagg Fluorspar??!

[MDLR]

All that lot - for Flagg Fluorspar??!

No - they were used on my 009 terminus to fiddle yard layout "Monyash" which used proper block bells and a ZX Spectrum to tell the punters what the bell codes meant - with humourous additions...............

[IrishPeter]

I rather like the idea of working using block bells, and I am planning on installing some rudimentary block bells on my railway if only to prevent head on collisions should we ever have a multi-operator session here.  In the early days the code was very simple, so I am planning on following that precedent and keep it down to a fairly small number of codes, so visitors can get the hang of the system quickly.  However, I will need codes for 'section clear; station occupied' and also codes for passenger/mixed trains - which need to go into the platform line, and goods trains in addition to all the blinding obvious ones. The other requirement is a register to keep track of what is out there.

Whether I will add staff and ticket, or whether I will go very UK 1870s and use block instruments instead I do not know.  I know that is not very Norwegian, but I do not fancy constructing an omnibus phone circuit for the Telephone Block.  Mind you knocking them out on block bells and keeping track in a train register would not be so different to telephone block, the only exception being that one would not be able to give the train number.

I ran into block bells on a very large Gauge O layout in the past.  It certainly helped the atmosphere and realism of the layout to hear the block bells being used to work the traffic.

Peter in AZ

[philipy]

I ran into block bells on a very large Gauge O layout in the past.  It certainly helped the atmosphere and realism of the layout to hear the block bells being used to work the traffic.

Peter in AZ

Realistic it may be for fixed private layouts, but at exhibitions all the operators of other layouts go insane with that constant, meaningless ( to them); ting, tingety, ting, ting, ... ting, ting, all day long!!

[bazzer42]

Thank goodness Philip said what I was thinking......

Nice to see the pictures and even more I fancy an indoor layout for the winter. That signal box picture gives you a good idea at what you could achieve inside. I must look up that fencing!

[Dannypenguin]

Realistic it may be for fixed private layouts, but at exhibitions all the operators of other layouts  go insane with that constant, meaningless ( to them); ting, tingety, ting, ting, ... ting, ting, all day long!!

Worst one of that is DCC sound layouts with REALLY loud speakers with the operators either unable to turn them down or not wanting to as "it will ruin the atmosphere" - one show I got so fed up I spent hardly any time on our layout and went and hijacked someone else's!

[SpudUk]

I secretly dream of having a fully equipped and operational signal box in the garden, just for my own fun!

[IrishPeter]

At the end of the day the use of block bells depends whether you need them or not.  They are not needed when one is operating OES, and a double track exhibition tail-chaser probably does not need them either, but on single track with multiple trains running you do need something to prevent our expensive toys from doing one another damage.  

I can see where Block bells could be a bloody nuisance in an exhibition hall.  I can think of two practical reasons.  Firstly, if more than one layout is using them and they happen to be close together, you don't know if that last 'Call Attention' was for you or the other fella.  Secondly, at most exhibitions you'd have a job hear the damn bell signals clearly unless you had Big Ben as the sounder.  Generally in a hall with the General Public around, a prearranged sequence - which may just be a conflab in the middle so everyone knows the next three moves; timetable and staff and ticket; or timetable and train orders work better because they are relatively quiet.

However, on a single track outdoor line there is a bit more need for communication when you have several operators present, and stations do not have line of sight between them.  On my line 1 and 2 have a clear line of sight, as do 1 and 3 if you stand in the right place, but 2 and 3, and 3 and 4 cannot see one another.  A plan, a sequence, a timetable or Phones will do the trick, but very often block bells are faster if everyone knows what they are doing, and they do have a certain 'nerd appeal.'  However, the bells on their own are not 100% reliable, you need some sort of instrument, or staff and ticket to reduce the risk of a prang to realistic levels.  

One little aside.  On one layout I knew, the code 4-4-4-4 Transferring Tokens was meant either send the staff through on the next train, or walk it over - I need the staff! Anyway it was amazing how fast one's memory improved after you had heard 4 x 4 a few times as receiving and answering that one made one feel like Quasimodo. I even started reading the timetable and sending the staff through when I was supposed to!

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[Peter Butler]

......... they do have a certain 'nerd appeal.'  
Peter in AZ

Says it all !!!!!!

[SpudUk]

I love it when a model railway uses proper bells, it adds a multi-sensory depth to what can otherwise be a dull or bland experience

[Hope Mountain Railway]

A great looking layout, with more to come, by the looks of things. Such a shame that we couldn't agree on a common height - would be great to join up with the other 40 Modules South of the Border. Particularly love the Turntable and traverser, not so keen on the tight clearances intermediate halt. Are the other dimensions that the group chose compatible, other than the height. 950 v 900 - such a shame.

[Soar Valley Light]

Now I'm a self confessed signalling nut - sorry Peter, should I rename myself a nerd?

Having made that admission I have to say that Danny and Phillipy are right on the money in my book, when it comes to exhibitions. They both are so annoying! (Block bells and sound units - not Danny and Phillipy!:oops:) I remember a 009 layout at the Elizabethen model railway society exhibition in Sutton-in-Ashfield, well over thirty years ago, driving everyone bonkers including it's operators. It can happen outside too. Whistles on the Charnwood Forest Railway at Rothley have been known to get me out of the chair in Rothley  box, thinking there was something about demanding my attention!:evil:

There can be little justification for operational block signalling on most layouts, accurately detailed models may have more claim in the interests of absolute realism I suppose. THere can be little place for them on narrow gauge railways anyway, where they were seldom used in reality. If you do have them I'm far more in favour of people coming up with their own simple code of bell signals rather than adopting the lengthy and complex RCH list, only a very few of which have relevance to our sort of railways. Even the Southern railway agreed with this to an extent and slashed the number of signals included in their books of Train Signalling Regulations.

Are trains are big enough to carry a staff without too much inconvenience, that should suffice for those circumstances where some control is needed. If absolutely necessary some sort of miniature durable ticket shouldn't be beyond the wit of any of us. As I always say though, our railways are our own and therefore each to his (or her) own and power to your bell tapper fingers no matter what you decide on!

[Peter Butler]

I am in total agreement with you on the subject of annoying layouts at exhibitions. It is the few 'nerds' amongst the hobbyists who create this in order to show off their toys and their ability to use them.
Surely, in reality there would be little occasion to use such systems on simple narrow gauge lines, and certainly not with the frequency as employed in model railway exhibitions. If model railway layouts only operated four trains throughout the working day, perhaps then it would be acceptable?

[IrishPeter]

I am in total agreement with you on the subject of annoying layouts at exhibitions. It is the few 'nerds' amongst the hobbyists who create this in order to show off their toys and their ability to use them.
 Surely, in reality there would be little occasion to use such systems on simple narrow gauge lines, and certainly not with the frequency as employed in model railway exhibitions. If model railway layouts only operated four trains throughout the working day, perhaps then it would be acceptable?

An exhibition hall is about the last place I would want to use block bells on a model railway. Too bally annoying. However, as a bit of a signalling nerd, having some sort of connection between the top and the bottom of the yard when there is more than one locomotive in steam is handy, but not essential if you are using staff and ticket.

The full size narrow gauge lines where I have been privileged to hang about backstage have generally used either the good old omnibus phone with staff and ticket (IMR in the 1970s); a sectional staff; or an OES staff with just an emergency phone (the old LCLR).  These days you occasionally get some sort of secure wireless link being used (Isle of Man Railways/Bus Vannin) but block instruments seem to be confined to those lines which have EKT/ETS, and those are mainly standard gauge.

Peter in AZ

[Chris Cairns]

Such a shame that we couldn't agree on a common height

My understanding from the member who machined the kits for the group, and is the one who has to rely on a wheelchair occasionally, is that it was the 16mm Association who increased the height without consideration for operators with mobility problems. Thus surely the shame is on the Association in this politically correct 21st Century.

The modules do not have built in legs, like I've seen on other modules (e.g. Brian's [MDLR]), but use commercial available trestles with threaded adjusters fitted on top.

Nice to see a Topic that encouraged some discussion from other Forum members. All I will add is the venue was such that the buzzers being used were not intrusive - we had traders stalls on 3 sides, an adjacent small N gauge layout at the fiddle yard end and a big gap at the station end. There was enough background noise in the gymnasium that the buzzer noise did not travel far.

Chris Cairns

[Hope Mountain Railway]

It sounds to me that different Wheelchair users have different needs. Our Wheelchair user used to curse layouts that were too low - as he struggled to bend double to get underneath. He was quite happy using an RC Loco, at a realistic eye level. Difficult to please everyone.