Garden Railway Forum

Several 2nd/3rd hand Mamod's & IP Jane's were for sale at the Show. The Member to Member Sales stand featured several Mamod's including an interesting R/C tender version - although the tender was the motorised power unit!

One trader had a complete RS1 set at a reasonable £195, but was asking tall prices for the rest of his Mamod bits.

Mamod Ltd - David Terry was manning a rather basic trade stall yet attracted a lot of attention, so I had to wait for a quiet period for my visit. On display was a Mark II with no decals & matching tender, a Diamond Jubilee Saddle Tank without decals and with a tender (in black as I recall), and a Brunel. Also a selection of accessories (steering rods, solid fuel tablets & funnels, etc.) plus a small selection of spares.

The new SP8 Beam Engine was also on display now all painted up, but with some rather large & ugly aluminium rivets holding the beam engine plate to the baseboard - due for release next month.

David confirmed that they have now sold 70 of the 100 Diamond Jubilee locomotives, and as has been posted elsewhere in this Forum, will quite happily post out an oval sight glass seal upon a telephone request (he only had them available in the pack of washer sets). I asked whether they were considering releasing a kit version of their locos and he indicated possibly with the Brunel, which is having the gearing changed to 3 to 1 from the current 2 to 1, but sadly it cannot be retrofitted to the current Brunel.

Thomas Telford - David confirmed that the current piston valve cylinders were the source of the difficulties with the prototype. So they are designing a new slide valve cylinder which will take time and so a date cannot be determined at this stage. He also indicated that they hope to keep price at the £430 range, and that it would not be released until they had a proper running locomotive. Having attended the lecture on building a Roundhouse Kit and getting one of the free manuals it is interesting to point out that Roundhouse run in their locomotives with a 20lb load for 8 hours prior to dispatch. I discussed the fact that Mamod use nitrile 'O' rings and did wonder whether using a different type of 'O' ring may help, and he did say that Mike Wakefield had also discussed this subject before. I explained my problem with my Brunel which loses pressure and slows down yet on refilling the lubricator off it goes again. So I've been advised to contact Peter Johnston at Mamod to see if I can get some unassembled cylinders to try out other 'O' rings.

Mamod were offering the best discount of the show (10% discount on all purchases), so I bagged a red tender for my Diamond Jubilee loco and 2 of the washer packs for an 18% discount. Thank You David.

Dream Steam - Their stand looked like a folding shelved display cupboard which folded out into a U shape and each time I passed it looked as if they were admiring their stand more rather than interacting with the public. Whilst waiting to ask some questions I heard the owner state that he tests the boilers to 140 PSI for 6 hours, but they are now having to use a metric source for copper tubing so the next batch is due for release in October 2013. I asked if they had any enhancements planned for the Mark II & Brunel which they now sell direct, and was told they plan to introduce boiler cladding and an opening bench seat for the Brunel, but nothing additional for the Mark II on top of the current water tank tops, etc. I pointed out that the front of the boiler on the Mark II needed some form of smoke box door and a saddle mount but he only agreed it was rather plain looking. They also intend introducing Radio Control for the MSS, Mark II & Brunel locos. They were offering 5% discount if you spent over £150.

RWM Steam - Not strictly Mamod but his range are the nephews of the original Mamod SL family. Roy was very approachable and keen to talk about his range and developments. He stated that sales of the RWM Janet & RWM De Winton were going well, with the De Winton being more popular. Only a couple of Janet's were ordered with plain steel wheels with most buyers opting for the spoked steel wheels. He had a box of these on display and they are very well manufactured and look great as well, sadly I cannot justify the cost of buying a set just for their looks on a good running Mamod. I mentioned that it was interesting that the spoked wheels had similar bearings to the original Mamod design whereas the plain steel wheels had those awkward screw in bearings and he said that those bearings interfered with the fitting of gas burners. We also discussed his 'O' ring cylinders which have been engineered very well, and confirmed that the cylinder end face is just pressed in (I had mentioned the difficulty this design presented if you needed to change 'O' rings whereas the old design at least allowed the end caps to be pushed out).

We then discussed the latest nephew addition to the Mamod family - the RWM Steam 'James' for which a rather bendy prototype was on display. He had started the mock up with cardboard then moved on to the only other material he had to hand (some thin copper), hence the bendy looking model. This has full length running boards, reshaped side tanks, and the rear drag beam has been replaced by a bracket which fits onto the standard chassis frames and very cleverly includes built in cab steps whilst retaining the cab back and rear buffer beam. The cab floor has also been cleverly cut around the bottom sight glass fitting, and the cab has been redesigned including a half open cab back. He will now be able to use the copper prototype templates to have the metalwork laser cut.

He also confirmed that the Janet does have extra steel weights mounted inside the side tanks to increase adhesion, and they also provide the added benefit of reducing the heat transfer to the side tanks.


The latest nephew of the original Mamod family -  a prototype RWM Steam James.

I did get some info on a question that has been asked on this forum more than once so will start a new discussion for that question shortly.

Chris Cairns.

Very informative Chris. Many thanks for keeping those of us who couldn't attend up to speed.

IMO I think the James is nice looking but a bit pricey for what it is. You can get a Roundhouse Bertie for not a great deal more.

So the Brunel's only going to be re-geared from 2:1 to 3:1. I would have thought 6:1 would be far better and much more prototypical.


Mike

I also enquired about the "James" And he said he could possibly sell the body for the loco as a separate entity... Which I for one, think would be another very good modification for those who want it... (I know I do!)

I do very much like the James also. If it is released just as a body alone (which if it isn't, Mr Wood would be missing a big trick here I would think) I would be very temped...however, that would mean either getting a new loco to fit the body onto or retro fitting Dolmur Goch!

Hmm... Ofario would look much more modern... and a lot less victorian lol...

Laurence - I dunno, I like the Victorian look you've given Ofario, it's nice and neat yet unique.

As for the Show itself and the Mamod chapter, I too found Dream Steam somewhat insular. I was able to examine the IP Engineering tender they had on one-off sale but otherwise they didn't seem very interested or eager to go with customers sadly.

Moving onto Roy Woods Models, I spent a good half hour plus there over the day of the show chatting with Roy [but removing myself when business was brewing] to return later.

I managed to get a good long exam of the RWM 'James on Saturday as I did Mamod's Thomas Telford when I visited their factory back in November.

For RWM and oscillator fans, here's a good look:-

Roy's own blue Janet as used in videos. Also a green cabbed version with the wheels looking for a new home. I noticed that he was very enthusiastic about the Summerland Chuffers being fitted to his engines too. Something I'd like to discuss in a thread tonight but for now, Show and pics.


The RWM James prototype.









Apparently the cab floor and rear dragbeam are a totally new design as opposed to the 'straight from Mamod' idea of the Janets ad Jane's before them. There's a new assembly that comprises of cab steps, part which goes over the frames at the side at the rear and then folds 90 degrees to be where the bufferbeam goes.

Its a good looker, I made enquiries whether the bodykit would be available separately or pieces would a la MSS/Mamod to whch Roy answered it would be a good possibility.

My concern however is the £499 price - I wouldn't mind too much but when competing with Accucraft [£650] or Roundhouse [£610] it will need to be classy along the lines of Merlin, Salem etc to justify the price.

Roy did state that he had had a good number of orders recently for complete engines mind, so perhaps we shall see an increase in 'good' oscillators?

I still think the new loco should have been called "John"! (geddit?) ;)

The lighting at Peterborough was very poor for photography - I struggled at ISO800.

What Doug has not added is that the green 'Janet' and green 'James' were apparently painted the same colour (one of the Ford Green's if I recall correctly) yet 'James' is clearly darker.

Will be interesting to see what price the 'James' bodywork will come in at. As the cab floor is higher Roy has very cleverly included a cut-out to accommodate the boiler bottom sight glass fitting, so that may need to be altered for non-RWM upgraded boilers.

With regards to the IP Eng tenders that Dream Steam found these apparently came from a shop closure so the £75 price is a rip off as they never sold for more than £65 previously. And you may have the additional cost of re-gauging to 32mm (it uses the IP Eng budget electric chassis but I'm not sure if they are different widths for the different gauges - if they are the same width then easier just to move the wheels in to 32mm).

Chris Cairns.

Chris Cairns:82856 wrote:The lighting at Peterborough was very poor for photography - I struggled at ISO800.

What Doug has not added is that the green 'Janet' and green 'James' were apparently painted the same colour (one of the Ford Green's if I recall correctly) yet 'James' is clearly darker.

Will be interesting to see what price the 'James' bodywork will come in at. As the cab floor is higher Roy has very cleverly included a cut-out to accommodate the boiler bottom sight glass fitting, so that may need to be altered for non-RWM upgraded boilers.

With regards to the IP Eng tenders that Dream Steam found these apparently came from a shop closure so the £75 price is a rip off as they never sold for more than £65 previously. And you may have the additional cost of re-gauging to 32mm (it uses the IP Eng budget electric chassis but I'm not sure if they are different widths for the different gauges - if they are the same width then easier just to move the wheels in to 32mm).

Chris Cairns.

When I spoke to Roy about the paintjobs, it was apparently because he'd used two different types of pant - one was powdercoat and the other was a different pro makeup. That would explain the differences in darkness, especially as the prototype James was a little hurried initially.

As for boilers, I would think that they were roughly the same dimensions? If not, a wider 'one size covers all' might be an idea - but I can't be sure as I couldn't get a good look inside.

The IP Tenders that were on sale were pretty much the same proportions as the MSS tenders so were an instant turnoff to me.

Also to me, £75 seemed a little steep but I was unsure. You can get MSS ones for £45.00 which seems fair enough, but £75? What seemed to be the difference? [If there are, I'd be keen to see more].

With regards to the IP Eng tenders that Dream Steam found these apparently came from a shop closure so the £75 price is a rip off as they never sold for more than £65 previously. And you may have the additional cost of re-gauging to 32mm (it uses the IP Eng budget electric chassis but I'm not sure if they are different widths for the different gauges - if they are the same width then easier just to move the wheels in to 32mm).

The chassis is much wider for the 45mm but does not provide enough clearance to remove the wheels and mount them inside the frames. You have to get the budget 32mm chassis from IP and use that.

Also to me, £75 seemed a little steep but I was unsure. You can get MSS ones for £45.00 which seems fair enough, but £75? What seemed to be the difference?

One word - QUALITY. The IP tender is worth the extra money IMO as it is better quality and better proportioned.

BTW - back on topic, thank you Chris for the excellent info and thank you to Doug for the pictures and updates.

IP Eng Tender - Peter, Thank You for confirming that you need to get the 32 mm IP Eng budget electric chassis to convert the gauge of these tenders. What saddens me with the current financial woes is the clear profiteering that is going on by some. Whilst I fully understand that the cost of some raw materials has escalated and thus affecting new product prices, there is clear profiteering going on in the 2nd hand market. The Dream Steam tenders were obtained from a shop closure, presumably at a substantial discount. Given their rarity they have now been priced to clearly make a handsome profit.

I was very fortunate to obtain one of these on the Members sales stand at a previous Merstham steam rally. I would not buy one now for £75 plus another £26 for a 32mm budget chassis.

RWM 'James' - Doug, I notice like me you have no photos of the underside of 'James' (the lighting was so poor that I could not get a decent handheld shot). The difference I am referring to is the sight glass tube fitting with the associated lower pipe from the boiler - these are all different between the various manufacturers of the upgrade boilers. By extending the running board from the top of the smoke box apron Roy has effectively raised the cab floor above the standard Mamod/MSS/IP Jane/PPS & RWM Janet height. So that will also affect other items in a cab like lubricators and gas tank & piping. So retro-fitting a 'James' body kit may not be that straight forward, and would need to be factored into the overall cost (would the changes to the piping, etc. be reversible?).

Chris Cairns.

Cor thanks for all the info..

In my experience, Anything within reason can be made to fit anything else.
Having seen the "James" I'd say it wouldn't be too hard at all to retro fit the body work to a Mss or Mamod. One might need to open up the hole in the floor for the gauge glass but this could also mean that a blow down valve could be fitted below the running board like on most Accucraft locos, which would be really helpful in keeping the boiler clean on the inside.
Piping isn't a major problem, as long as the pipe can be annealed so that its soft enough to be able to re route it then I don't see any problems or again, cut some holes for the pipes to pass through the cab floor like in full size practice. I for one would love to have my in-line lubricator drain below the cab floor so it looks much less prominent.

Just a few ideas there.

I suspect the killer will be how much the 'James' bodywork will actually cost, given that these will be laser cut and are not going to sell in large quantities.

Chris Cairns.

Aye... that would be the killer for me also as I'd build a loco to use it on... so it would be a medium / long term project for me dependant on whether or not I could get my hands on a mss / mamod in need of work