Garden Railway Forum

The postman delivered a used Mamod steam dome brass cover today. After I gave it a clean up with brasso I put it on top of an IP Jane on display in my lounge and suddenly thought 'Deja Vu', having just read up about Greg's (Narrow Minded) makeover of his 2 quarry locomotives.

So before the 'Spot the Difference' I thought a little bit about the history of the IP Jane is in order.





In 1994/1995 Ivan Prior (IP Engineering) looked to develop an open cab locomotive based on the earlier Mamod design. Taking a Mamod SL6 this was fitted with a silver soldered boiler with water top up valve, higher pressure safety valve and cab sighted regulator. It was also fitted with 'O' ring pistons, a lubricator and a meths burner. Initially sold as the Brandbright Jane it was later sold direct by IP Engineering until phased out in 2003.





Options for the IP Jane included a brass dome to fit over the water top-up valve, decorative cylinder covers, a full cab assembly, a tender & a radio control kit. It was available in 32mm & 45mm, and in maroon or green.

When I obtained my 1st IP Jane I researched on-line about this loco. I recall reading an article about how IP Eng cast their own smoke boxes which were better than the Mamod & MSS ones. Sadly I never kept a copy of that article and cannot find it again on-line. It is generally thought that the riveted and flared bottom smoke boxes on the 2 Jane's above (not mine - grabbed off eBay) were those fitted to the Brandbright Jane.

So I currently own 2 IP Janes and in doing some research for this Topic I've discovered a significant fact that changes the date of one of these locos. It has previously been discussed on-line that towards the end of IP Engineering production several Mamod type bits were used (e.g. smoke box and side tanks - at that time PPS Steam Models were producing unpainted Mamod type bits).

Sadly my photos are not as good as Greg's in my dimly lit lounge but hopefully of some use. So here we have 'Spot the Difference' between Jane's A & B.


A


B


A


B


A


B

I appreciate that many of the differences are due to the beautifications that I've carried out on Jane A, but I was more amazed by the IP Engineering differences -wonder how many you can see?

Would be great if any owners of Brandbright or IP Eng Janes could post photos in this Topic for further comparision.

Chris Cairns.

"B" at the bottom looks like it has 45mm cylinders?

A is meths fired whilst B is gas fired. Also the gas tank on B is similar to the gas tanks that Roy wood sells on his website. B's steam regulator sticks out behind the cab back again like the Janet sold by Roy wood. A also has a short type safety valve.

First off, can I just say "what a nice pair"! and secondly, I wish I'd known that you were after a dome cover - I have one spare  ;)

Now,
Centre couplings
Brake pipes
Lamps
Chimney caps
Fold-over tank tabs & position of tank fillers
Coupling rods
Pressure gauge
Safety valve
Gauge glass mounts
Handrail stanchions
Firing
Rear drag beam
Wheelsets
Cylinders

Shame you haven't got one of the smokeboxes with the extra rivet detail - that would really set them apart!

I agree that it would be really nice to get some "insider info" on the history of these loco's.
Mamod is what Mamod was (;)), Mamodification dating back into the "Dark Ages" of 16mm garden railways, but the IP Jane appeared with the first wave of the trade-supported broader appeal of the hobby.
As such, I reckon it deserves better recognition as one of the iconic loco's!  :D

I've said to several folk that I would certainly not get another Mamod, but I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at the offer of a Jane/Janet.

edit; Nice that you've got these two in the right colour!

Thanks for taking part & Welcome to the World of Janeology!

To answer your 'Spot's'.

Spule 4 - "B" at the bottom looks like it has 45mm cylinders. Indeed it does as Jane B came as a 45mm Jane whereas Jane A came as 32mm. Although the cylinders are the same design, they have different style gland nuts (bonus point), and the 45mm one has a thicker back plate. I tried using Mamod back plates to change the gauge but they are not compatible.

Lner fan Sam - You have your A's & B's reversed but I know what you mean (not too clear but appropriate lettering is under the photos).

B is meths fired whilst A is gas fired. Correct, the Jane was only supplied as meths fired. Jane A had its' meths burner changed to a PPS ceramic gas burner (originally made by Cheddar Models). Jane B uses a modified Mamod chassis spacer where a slot has been cut to allow the burner to fit. However these spacers (still supplied with current meths burners) do not support the burner. IP Eng actually made a thicker diameter spacer which did indeed support the burner and Jane A had one of those fitted. If the RWM gas tank is the same as the PPS & Cheddar tanks then it has a different thread size to the current Bix tanks - thus they are incompatible without an adaptor.

A's steam regulator sticks out behind the cab back - When I fitted the gas burner I realised it would not allow the steam regulator to work. The PPS (now RWM) regulator is a different thread size so they were not interchangeable. So I had to extend the IP Eng steam regulator by using a piece of steel rod and soldering a tube over that to join it to the regulator shaft. However for another bonus point is there something else different about the steam regulators? edit - Answer now added below.

B also has a short type safety valve - Well spotted as it was not easy to see in my photos with the pressure gauge hiding one and both being screwed out a different amount. Interestingly the IP Eng replacement Mamod/MSS higher pressure safety valve is taller again than these two.

Narrow Minded - Safety valve, Firing, & Cylinders - Already covered above but there was a bonus point for cylinder covers on Jane A.

Brake pipes, Lamps & Pressure gauge - All added by myself to Jane A. Took some time to confirm that thread size for the banjo bolt fitting as the sight glass top fitting was contaminated with paint/sealant. Not sure if a similar arrangement would work on Jane B.

Centre couplings - Correct. The IP Jane was only available with centre buffer couplings. They did not introduce multi height couplings as a Home Builder part until just before the end of the IP Jane production in 2003, but they still had to be bought separately. At least with the RWM Janet you have the free option of either coupling being fitted.

Chimney caps - Well Spotted. Jane B & the Brandbright Janes above have a longer cap that slides onto a smooth chimney (no rim like the Mamod/MSS ones). Jane A's cap is press fitted onto that rim - the same style that Dream Steam now sell.

Fold-over tank tabs & position of tank fillers - Indeed. Jane B has Mamod style side tanks with the riveted filler tabs (and holes in the cab floor for attaching the cab front). IP Eng made their own bodywork for the Jane which was thicker & superior to the Mamod offering.

Rear drag beam - Which ties in with the bodywork above. Jane B has a Mamod rear drag beam with a flat cab back, whilst Jane A uses an IP Eng cab back with integrated drag beam assembly.

Coupling rods - Correct. Jane B has Mamod brass coupling rods whereas Jane A has IP Eng coupling rods which I painted red.

Handrail stanchions - Go to the Top of the Class! Whilst they are both closed stanchions and it is not easy to see in my photos the stanchions are of a different depth.

Wheelsets - For sure. They both came with IP Eng holed disk wheels but when I went to regauge Jane B to 32mm I had to fit Dream Steam wheels as they have longer coupling rod pins. Jane B's IP Eng wheels are now fitted to my SL1K restoration.

Gauge glass mounts - They are but that is only part of the full reason for the difference. Indeed the real reason is why I started this Topic. There is a difference between Jane A & B which answers the reason, and in fact it can be seen on the 2 Brandbright Janes above as well. However the photos have not been taken at the right angle to highlight the difference but if you have architect type measuring eyes it may become clearer? Can you see it?


There is one remaining difference between an important piece of hardware so I'll leave that for someone to find - interestingly whilst dougrail championed Narrow Minded's competition on the other Forum (but he did have first hand inside information) he has been somewhat absent on here recently.

Narrow Minded wrote:Nice that you've got these two in the right colour!

I do like the maroon colour as well. IP Jane was only available in maroon or green.


An old photo of my long term IPS Janet project. This has IP Jane bodywork & wheels with a PPS Janet boiler. The smoke box/chimney has changed to a brass spark arrestor hopefully (if I can get the bits to fit). The green bodywork matches my IP Jane green tender.

Chris Cairns.

Regarding the regulator handles, A has a Dream Steam handle and B an original IP Eng' one?

DolwyddelanLightRail - A has a Dream Steam handle and B an original IP Eng' one - Not quite James but that is the difference, they are different style regulator levers. As far as I'm aware they are both IP Eng ones. The one fitted to Jane B is a thin brass rod bent at 90 degrees and can also be seen on the 2 Brandbright Jane's above. The one fitted to Jane A has a thicker collar and a thicker straight rod which has a ball end. Not sure about the original Dream Steam boilers (which were old IP Eng stock) but the current ones have a wheel regulator.

Chris Cairns.

Someone summoned me?

Well, now I'm back at full time and 10hrs a week at college, I'm not as much online as I'd like to be - that AND I have a loco to be working on to stave off debts....

As for NM's competition - I didn't have any inside information.

B's regulator reminds me of one of mike Chaney's regulator's.

Not seeing that, it is still a boiler bung type, Chaney's was inline.

As far as Jane Vs. Janet handles, here is another long handle Janet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfOIDv7nMDQ

Janmod has the nice old IP Jane long handle with ball, the round knob just strikes me as odd....hard to grab, and I think burnt fingers would be the rule due to it being a big heat-sink.

Lner fan Sam wrote:B's regulator reminds me of one of mike Chaney's regulator's.

Not seeing that, it is still a boiler bung type, Chaney's was inline.

Only thing I see similar to the Mike Chaney regulators (there was 2 types made) is the bent rod operating lever. Even the shaft collar used was different.

As far as Jane Vs. Janet handles, here is another long handle Janet.

This Topic started as the Brandbright & IP Eng Jane, but I guess it could develop into the PPS Jenny & Janet as well (although I do not think we have any owners of these models). Yes the PPS boiler had a longer shaft regulator (although not on the Jenny) with a nice ball ended lever fitted to a slightly different collar.





PPS Jenny is much like the upgraded Mamod SLs & MSS locomotives that people have modified. Look at that very crowded enclosed cab and the painted plain steel wheels!

Chris Cairns.

So to finish off the differences.

1. Reverser valve. Whilst Jane A has the improved PPS reverser valve, Jane B has a Mamod/MSS reverser valve.

2. Smoke Box fixing. Perhaps not easy to see in the low res photos but Jane A has pozidrive screws holding the side tanks into the smoke box, whilst Jane B has slotted screws.

3. Boilers. This is the main reason why I started this Topic. Look carefully at the green Brandbright Jane & Jane B and you should see that the boiler insert for the water top up valve is in the centre of the boiler so the optional steam dome is in the same place as a Mamod/MSS. However on the maroon Brandright Jane & Jane A that insert is further towards the front of the boiler so the steam dome is not symmetrically placed. As Greg (Narrow Minded) has already pointed out, Jane A has a different sight glass tube fitting (and the pipes from the boiler to this sight glass tube are different as well). This boiler I believe was made by Cheddar Models who employed an excellent stove enamel painter, as that paint finish is superior to the other IP Eng boiler and the current Dream Steam boilers.

I had always assumed that Jane B was one of the last built as it used some Mamod/MSS parts but after reading my copy of the Garden Rail review of the Brandright Jane (May 1996) which came with Jane A, I'm now convinced that Jane B is if fact one of the earliest Jane's (same as the one in the review), and this is backed up by the IP Engineering address label on the underside of the cab which has the old Cranfield address (IP Eng had moved from there before Jane production had finished).

Chris Cairns.

Literally just had these of the postman in the last 15mins! Its a unsteamed IP Jane. The instructions with it have IPs old address in Bedforshire? Does this help age it?

Without a continuous record of IP Engineering sales it is difficult to put an exact date. I have their 1999/2000 catalogue, and the rest of my IP Jane info comes via the Wayback Machine which starts from 04 Mar 2001 (Dorset Address). My other IP Eng catalogues date from after the withdrawal of the IP Jane.

Yours is not an early IP Jane. The clues: -

Multi Height Couplings - These are not listed in the 1999/2000 catalogue. They were an optional extra for the IP Jane. They are listed from 04 Mar 2001.

Painted Plain Disk Steel Wheels - The original IP Eng steel wheels had holed disks (as listed in the 1999/2000 catalogue). At some point in production these changed to the painted plain disk wheels (no photos stored on Wayback Machine so difficult to put a date), and at the end of IP Eng production (after withdrawal of the IP Jane) those plain disk wheels were supplied unpainted (which became the original Dream Steam stock).

Cab Handrails - If you look at all the Jane photos above you will see they all have equal length cab handrails, whereas your Jane has different length ones. I recall this was one of the selling points of the PPS Janet - equal length cab handrails.

So your Jane probably dates from 2000 or later.

Very rare to find an unfired IP Jane so Good Luck with your running in sessions.

Chris Cairns.

Thanks, I will look forward to try and steaming it

I think my engine might be the closest to a PPS Jenny then...

Most "Super Mamods" are.

A Jane/Janet is still on the "someday" list.

Fascinating thread

A few years back I bought an unfired early Jane on Ebay and I love it

I actually spoke to whatshisname at IP about it saying how great it was and he took an interest and after asking a few questions and asking for the serial number scratched on her underside he declared her to have came from either the 1st or 2nd batch of Janes

Nicely done, is that the loco known as "Coath"? I observe it has the dead early IPEJ riveted and curved-side smokebox as opposed to the Mamod/MSS 'bell' style smokebox.

dougrail:81587 wrote:I observe it has the dead early IPEJ riveted and curved-side smokebox .

Those were nice looking smokeboxes. Reportedly the tooling for them failed, a true shame.