Which one's to scale?

[TheChestnutLine]

I've just been on both the I.P engineering site and Brandbright and both their Quarrymens coach kits are different sizes, Which ones to scale? I.P claim theirs is to 16mm scale but Brandbright don't say, but I assumed it would be to scale as all their other stock is? Help!

[Sir haydn]

Brandbrights are to scale IP are over scale

[TheChestnutLine]

Why would they say its 16mm scale then?

[Sir haydn]

not sure. they have always made stock over scale

[GardenRail]

not sure. they have always made stock over scale

Hmmmmn! IP made some Ffesty rolling stock overscale to try to match the over wide Roundhouse Taliesin – and got pilloried for it.

They do not 'always' make stuff overscale.

In the case of the quarryman's coach, the dimensions of the IP model were taken from the quarryman's coach at the Penrhyn slate museum and the dimensions of the model were approved by Robin Willis, archivist to the Penrhyn Soc. The dimensions of the Brandbright ones are also correct – these dimensions were taken from the example at Penrhyn Castle. There were two different vehicle types as per Boyd's book – check it out. All new-build stuff IP stuff (other than specific generic stock for generic locomotives or low price stuff for youngsters) is to either 16mm scale or (in the case of IoM or Irish stock) 15mm scale. It is a shame to knock any particular supplier of equipment based on personal prejudice rather than fact. Every trader is susceptible to this sort of thing.

[90733]

IPs are overscale, hecne one reason I bought them, look less silly behind a edrig

[GardenRail]

IPs are overscale, hecne one reason I bought them, look less silly behind a edrig

Which prototype kits in the current range are you referring to here?

[GardenRail]

IPs are overscale, hecne one reason I bought them, look less silly behind a edrig

In fact I note from your website that you have IP eezybuilds. These may certainly be large but they do not actually have a scale. My post referred to the 'scale' models of particular prototypes.

[90733]

IPs are overscale, hecne one reason I bought them, look less silly behind a edrig

Which prototype kits in the current range are you referring to here?

I was talking about the Fffestinog stock (which I beleve have just been withdrawn?) that I got at narrow gauge north, I belive you were there with Ivan when I bought them!
The Ezee stuf is very small! and looks ridicolous with a edrig, which you probally know!

[GardenRail]

IPs are overscale, hecne one reason I bought them, look less silly behind a edrig

Which prototype kits in the current range are you referring to here?

I was talking about the Fffestinog stock (which I beleve have just been withdrawn?) that I got at narrow gauge north, I belive you were there with Ivan when I bought them!
The Ezee stuf is very small! and looks ridicolous with a edrig, which you probally know!

Yes that was the oversize stock mentioned in my post together with the reason why it was over scale. IP sold it off cheaply at the AGM. Funny how no one gave Roundhouse a hard time over scale. The rest – including the quarrymans, is not over scale.

[90733]

I do agree with you there, somepeople seem to have a moan when IP make things overscale, but most steam locos are especially large!

[GardenRail]

I do agree with you there, somepeople seem to have a moan when IP make things overscale, but most steam locos are especially large!

personally I prefer both generic locomotives and generic stock – largely because I can make of them what I will. As far as i am aware however, the Ffesty prototype stock was the only foray into rubber scale that IP did. The rest, if a model of a particular prototype, is to scale.

[90733]

I do agree with you there, somepeople seem to have a moan when IP make things overscale, but most steam locos are especially large!

personally I prefer both generic locomotives and generic stock – largely because I can make of them what I will. As far as i am aware however, the Ffesty prototype stock was the only foray into rubber scale that IP did. The rest, if a model of a particular prototype, is to scale.

Well I've learnt something! Didn't know the ffesty stock was the only overscale items, thanks for that info, and indeed generic lets us make our own historys

[Keith S]

not sure. they have always made stock over scale

Hmmmmn! IP made some Ffesty rolling stock overscale to try to match the over wide Roundhouse Taliesin – and got pilloried for it.

They do not 'always' make stuff overscale.

In the case of the quarryman's coach, the dimensions of the IP model were taken from the quarryman's coach at the Penrhyn slate museum and the dimensions of the model were approved by Robin Willis, archivist to the Penrhyn Soc. The dimensions of the Brandbright ones are also correct – these dimensions were taken from the example at Penrhyn Castle. There were two different vehicle types as per Boyd's book – check it out. All new-build stuff IP stuff (other than specific generic stock for generic locomotives or low price stuff for youngsters) is to either 16mm scale or (in the case of IoM or Irish stock) 15mm scale. It is a shame to knock any particular supplier of equipment based on personal prejudice rather than fact. Every trader is susceptible to this sort of thing.

So it seems some 1:1 scale railways are guilty of building things overscale then too! When will it end?

Another lesson one might take from this is, if you are a manufacturer of locomotives or rolling stock, don't dare make an engine or wagon that in any way resembles a full-sized prototype unless you intend to make it absolutely perfect for the benefit of the "scale modelers". Otherwise the rivet-counters will accuse you of "ruining" it, and the folks who just want to play with steam engines in the garden won't buy it either, because of all the rage they attract from "model railway" guys! Jeez. I guess the only solution is to stick with generic stuff like Edrig and Lady Anne and hope some rivet-counter doesn't peek over your fence and suspect you of trying to imitate a full sized railway from somewhere!

[TheChestnutLine]

Thanks for the info, that's really interesting. I'm not a rivet counter but when the rest of my stock is to 16mm scale (regardless of the locos size) it just seems sensible to have it all the same. Looking at the dimensions from both traders threw me so I just wanted clearing up as to why they're different.

[hussra]

Just to clarify: are we talking here about Ffestiniog quarrymen's carriages, or Penrhyn ones? I think both Brandbright and IP have done kits for both, but they are very very different prototypes!

[TheChestnutLine]

Just to clarify: are we talking here about Ffestiniog quarrymen's carriages, or Penrhyn ones? I think both Brandbright and IP have done kits for both, but they are very very different prototypes!

The Penrhyn ones.

[hussra]

Just to clarify: are we talking here about Ffestiniog quarrymen's carriages, or Penrhyn ones? I think both Brandbright and IP have done kits for both, but they are very very different prototypes!

The Penrhyn ones.

Aha. I think Sir Haydn and 90733 are talking about the Ffes ones.

[90733]

Just to clarify: are we talking here about Ffestiniog quarrymen's carriages, or Penrhyn ones? I think both Brandbright and IP have done kits for both, but they are very very different prototypes!

The Penrhyn ones.

Aha. I think Sir Haydn and 90733 are talking about the Ffes ones.

oops yes, i was sorry about the mix up, I think we've all confused each other, well ok, just me and Sir Haydn

[GardenRail]

not sure. they have always made stock over scale

Another lesson one might take from this is, if you are a manufacturer of locomotives or rolling stock, don't dare make an engine or wagon that in any way resembles a full-sized prototype unless you intend to make it absolutely perfect for the benefit of the "scale modelers". Otherwise the rivet-counters will accuse you of "ruining" it, and the folks who just want to play with steam engines in the garden won't buy it either, because of all the rage they attract from "model railway" guys! Jeez. I guess the only solution is to stick with generic stuff like Edrig and Lady Anne and hope some rivet-counter doesn't peek over your fence and suspect you of trying to imitate a full sized railway from somewhere!

Indeed! This is just what I do! NOT because I am afraid of the rivet counters but because I model my own railway – not a copy of the L&M or the L&B. It also enables me to convert standard (and comparatively cheap) generic locos into something personal to my railway. All my locomotives are fitted with whistles and the piston valve locos have working automatic draincocks. I modify the cabs to be as clear as possible as well. It is each to one's own.

It is also noticeable that while one can, for some reason, pillory firms such as IP or Accucraft, while others (and we know who they are) are somehow seen as sacrosanct. This sort of thing is always difficult to counter, because while there is always something that could be improved with any provider of models, I don't wish to compare the bad points of one particular marque of models with the bad points of another just to make a point. Most of our suppliers do their best. I just wish the uncritical fanboys who wish to justify their purchases would do so without demonising products purchased by other people. Apart from anything else it doesn't help to improve the breed. This last, I hasten to add, is not what has happened here – but I have seen it regularly in another place