Containerisation comes to the PLR

[ge_rik]

I've been considering making a video showing fruit traffic from Bulkeley Station. In the past, I've assumed fruit would be transported in covered vans, but I did wonder whether it would be more financially viable for the railway to opt for containers. A bit of research revealed that Conflat Containers came into being in the 1930s, when my railway is supposedly set. So, why not?

I reckoned that 'A' Type containers could conceivably be feasible for use on my 3' line and so tracked down some info on them

https://www.igg.org.uk/rail/5-unit/unitload1.htm

So, a quick bit of tinkering on Tinkercad, and I've produced a couple of designs.

DSCI4121.JPG (2.6 MiB) Viewed 34986 times

The second design is presently being printed.

Boxes of apples have been prepared ready for loading

DSCI4122.JPG (2.05 MiB) Viewed 34986 times

I'd be interested to hear if any NG lines actually tried containerisation. It seems like a logical solution to the problems of transhipment. I know the Leek & Manifold tried transporter wagons, but it seems to me that containers would have been a far more viable proposition.

Rik

[Peter Butler]

Whether they did or not, I think they will look just great amongst your varied rolling stock. Great idea!

[Durley]

I'd be interested to hear if any NG lines actually tried containerisation. It seems like a logical solution to the problems of transhipment. I know the Leek & Manifold tried transporter wagons, but it seems to me that containers would have been a far more viable proposition.

Rik

Great idea Rik and makes for some interesting traffic and transhipment facilities.

The South Indian Railway was a 1000mm gauge line and used containers in the 1930s. There are a few photos on this page: https://abn397.wordpress.com/2023/10/28 ... the-1930s/

Obviously not a British prototype but the company did have its headquarters in London for a time. The rolling stock looks typically British to me.

[ge_rik]

Thanks. I wonder why, as far a I know, containers weren't tried on UK NG railways. It seems to me that it would have been a handy method for goods transhipment.

Rik

[Durley]

I guess the containerisation concept arrived a little too late for many lines that would have been struggling financially through the 1920s and 1930s so lacked the funds to invest in the necessary infrastructure and facilities. At least the PLR has an innovative and forward looking Board of Directors able to invest in its future!

[GTB]

I'd be interested to hear if any NG lines actually tried containerisation. It seems like a logical solution to the problems of transhipment. I know the Leek & Manifold tried transporter wagons, but it seems to me that containers would have been a far more viable proposition.

Not aware of any English common carrier ng railways using containers, but English company management weren't always the sharpest tools in the shed........ Apart from management inertia, the biggest problem would be fitting a standard gauge container in a ng wagon and then fitting the result through the ng loading gauge. Good luck trying to get a BR A class container on a wagon through a Festiniog Railway tunnel.

However the County Donegal and the GNR(I) from before WW1 used what they called 'tranship wagons' which were a form of containerisation. The body of the wagon, either an open, or a van, was slid longitudinally off one underframe and onto the other gauge underframe. The interchange point was at Strabane and the operation was apparently carried out using the mixed gauge turntable at that station.

There's a couple of photos and a drawing of a tranship wagon in 'Narrow Gauge Rolling Stock - an Irish Railway Pictorial' by Desmond Coakham. Out of print I imagine, as my copy was printed in 2007. The same book has a photo of two CIE A type containers tied down on a CDR bogie flat sitting in a yard. I would assume the pic was taken in the '50s, after the formation of CIE and before closure of the CDR.

Here in Oz, the VR started using LCL containers as far back as the '20s for interstate traffic, but they don't appear to have used them on the VR ng lines.

Graeme

[ge_rik]

Thanks Graeme
I thought if anyone knew, it would be you with your encyclopaedic knowledge.

I think I might have that book. I'll check when I get back from my walk. I did wonder if Irish 3' narrow gauge lines might be the most likely candidates to have tried containerisation. It doesn't seem to have protected them from closure unfortunately.

Rik

Interesting.

[ge_rik]

Interesting. I'm back home now and found the photos and drawing, Graeme mentioned. If I'm understanding correctly, the 'containers' rolled off the wagons at one end straight on to their broad gauge equivalents - with rollers on the wagon frames to facilitate it. In 'The County Donegal Railways Companion' (Crombleholme, Midland, 2005), there's a description of open transhipment wagons for transporting stone. There were also tanker 'containers' which could be loaded on to flat wagons or open wagons to be craned off at Killybegs harbour for fuelling fishing boats. It seems the earliest transhipment wagons on the CDR date back to 1900.

I think this could preface an interesting era of development on the PLR .....

Rik

[GTB]

If I'm understanding correctly, the 'containers' rolled off the wagons at one end straight on to their broad gauge equivalents - with rollers on the wagon frames to facilitate it.

That's my understanding of the process. Low capital cost, as all that was needed was a section of dual gauge track at the break of gauge station. No need for cranes, even if transfer to road vehicles had been contemplated.

Graeme

[tommygander1941]

Perfect example of course is the Leek & Manifold!

[ge_rik]

Perfect example of course is the Leek & Manifold!

Ah, but is that really "containerisation"?
Would a roadrailer trailer appear somewhere on the same continuum?

28315601500_24fbdca1e4_b.jpg (96.04 KiB) Viewed 34795 times

Rik

[GTB]

Ah, but is that really "containerisation"?
Would a roadrailer trailer appear somewhere on the same continuum?

Transporter wagons don't meet the definition of containerisation in my opinion. Transporters fall in the category of gauge changing methods, like Talgo trains and bogie exchange.

The 'Roadrailer' system is a freight carrying variant of what is usually known as 'Hi-Rail'. Mostly used for maintenance vehicles and rail buses, although the Japanese army in WW2 had small tanks that were fitted with rail wheels as well as tracks.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road%E2%80%93rail_vehicle

This article turned up in a search, looks like a good start on coming up with a container system for a 3' gauge minor railway.
https://igg.org.uk/rail/5-unit/unitload1.htm

Graeme

[ge_rik]

I found this photo on Wikipedia. It shows LMS containers from 1928. They look smaller than the later versions. I might try doing a bit more research

LMS_freight_containers_on_lorry_and_rail_wagon_(CJ_Allen,_Steel_Highway,_1928).jpg (61.34 KiB) Viewed 34746 times

Source: public Domain: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... #Licensing

Rik

[philipy]

I might try doing a bit more research

The LMS had 4 sizes of containers apparently, configured to match their standard van profiles.
https://www.lmssociety.org.uk/topics/containers.php

I have various LMS rolling stock books and I'll have a look when I get chance but I can't get to them atm.

[ge_rik]

This 1928 article from the LMS Society website is interesting.

https://www.lmssociety.org.uk/topics/containers.php

Rik

Snap!!!! Just noticed Philip has beaten me to finding the same article (exactly half an hour before me .....

[GTB]

This is about the point where you have to decide on container sizes.......

- Will this traffic be carried in PLR/customer owned containers, or containers supplied by the LMS?

- Is the theoretical loading gauge of the PLR large enough to pass a standard gauge container loaded on a PLR wagon?

- How will the PLR carry the containers? Lashed down on a flat wagon, or loaded in an open wagon? More likely the latter in the '20s and '30s.

If the containers are to be PLR/customer owned, there's an opportunity to go to town on the paintwork. They would likely be dedicated to one customer's traffic, so could carry a private owner livery.

Graeme

[GTB]

Yesterday was a miserable day so I spent it in my reading chair with a pile of books and the radio on in the background. The velcro cats as usual decided I needed company.....

A couple more books to check out. 'The Irish Narrow Gauge. Vol. 2 by Tom Ferris' has a couple of photos of the transfer wagons. It also has a pic. of a larger container lettered for the CDR, sitting in a CDR open wagon.

Another book I have is 'The Irish Narrow Gauge in Colour by Norman Johnston'. Colour photos from the period aren't the best, but there's a pic showing a couple of small 'Jacobs Biscuits' containers in a PO colour scheme (a beige box with a red Jacobs logo).

Both books suggest in the photo captions that the CDR used containers to avoid Customs hassles with goods from the Republic passing through Ulster to Donegal.

Graeme

[philipy]

I came across this thread on a forum i've never heard of before. There are some interesting ( plus some slightly off the wall comments) on narrow gauge containers, internationally.
https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=77382

[ge_rik]

I came across this thread on a forum i've never heard of before. There are some interesting ( plus some slightly off the wall comments) on narrow gauge containers, internationally.
https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=77382

Interesting link - not only for the content but also as it's also a PHPBB forum with a strange choice of colour scheme. I don't know about you but I found the black text on a grey background difficult to read.

Also interesting that they have a bot filter when the site is accessed.

Rik
PS Not sure why the Eaton Railway was included. Whilst it was a minimum gauge railway, to my knowledge they didn't use containerisation.

[philipy]

Interesting link - not only for the content but also as it's also a PHPBB forum with a strange choice of colour scheme. I don't know about you but I found the black text on a grey background difficult to read.

Also interesting that they have a bot filter when the site is accessed.

I agree about the colour scheme, although since it appears to be a forum for a game called Transport Tycoon which was originally written in 1994 and subsequently 'open-sourced' ( I looked it up!!), who knows how the nerds brains might interpret colour!

I didn't see any sign of a bot filter though?