Airbrushes

[Phil.P]

I am thinking of investing in one of these, but other than making a mess with rattle-cans, and a brief 'mess' attempting to spray car panel's, I am not sure what to invest in?

Thoughts and recommendations:
What can you do with them, that I have probably not thought about?
Care and feeding..
How much paint needed to cover a model? - probably has a input to cup-size?
Closed, or open?
Must-have accessories? - Stand, does it need to switch the compressor, that sort of thing.

All thoughts and advice greatly received.

Phil.P

[ge_rik]

Hi Phil
Good luck with this. When I asked a similar question on another forum I got so much conflicting advice I gave up and stuck with rattle cans. The advice you get on here might be more instructive however, so I will be interested in seeing how it develops.

In the meantime, I have actually bought an airbrush and compressor off a mate of a mate at a bargain price. However, it has been sitting in its box for the past six months until I pluck up the courage to give it a try. The Do's and especially the Don'ts of the advice I received previously are still rattling around in my head to the extent that I'm reluctant to give it a try.

Rik

[Phil.P]

There does seem to be conflicting advice about..
Lots of 'instructional' videos, magazine articles..

Even yesterday, there was a 2020 Hornby magazine in the hospital waiting area. - A first! With an article about weathering and airbrushes. But the person concerned intimated that different models were good for different things, and used six different models, without any explanation.

I suppose you have to just 'have a go'?

But the thought of taking a pristine 2-3 hundred pound model, and liberally spraying it with 'dirty thinners', is a little daunting..

Phil.P

[Peter Butler]

I very much agree with Rik on this one, I bought my first airbrush and compressor about 30 years ago, I used it at the time on one of my early 16mm scratch-built Rail Gun models (the large one shown here) ...

IMG_0122.JPG (3.18 MiB) Viewed 3130 times

Since then I have bought two more airbrushes and not used any of them, rattle cans are so much easier!
Watching others use airbrushes makes it look so easy, but they have had years of experience. By the time I master the use of one I could have finished several other models in my own usual, and quite acceptable, way.

[philipy]

However, it has been sitting in its box for the past six months until I pluck up the courage to give it a try. The Do's and especially the Don'ts of the advice I received previously are still rattling around in my head to the extent that I'm reluctant to give it a try.

TBH, I think its a bit like 3d printing... all the "advice" scares you witless but eventually you pluck up the courage to dive in and, accepting that you WILL make mistakes ( and work out how to deal with them ), you eventually wonder what all the fuss was about!

Having said all that, I've had an old Badger airbrush for 30-odd years, which in my 4mm days I used frequently. Back then, cleaning Humbrol out of it after every use was a real pain so when I graduated to the garden and found that rattle cans were fine, the airbrush fell into disuse. About a year ago I dug it out and tried it with acrylics but soon discovered that although the spraying was fine, getting acrylic out of it is almost as bad as Humbrol and in one way even worse, because at least with Humbrol if it did get hard it could be dislodged with paint stripper, can't say the same with water based acrylics.

No doubt we will now be deluged with " how to remove acrylics" posts?

[philipy]

But the thought of taking a pristine 2-3 hundred pound model, and liberally spraying it with 'dirty thinners', is a little daunting..

As the old saying has it "If I was going to there from here, I'd start from somewrhe else"!! Don't experiment on a pristine 2-3 hundred pound model, start on a couple of bits of wood nailed together, then progress to a cheapish small kit built wagon and work your way up from there. I'll guarantee that you WILL be disppointed with your first efforts at least.

[Phil.P]

One reason for thinking the airbrush route, is to waste less paint, and have more control of how much one is applying.

It seems there is little consistency, in how much paint comes out of a rattle-can, and some 'spatter' gobs of paint. - Normally, on the final coat!

Phil.P

[Peter Butler]

It seems there is little consistency, in how much paint comes out of a rattle-can, and some 'spatter' gobs of paint. - Normally, on the final coat!

Phil.P

Not in my experience I have to say. I use Halford's own brand or 'Hycote' and find both most consistent.

[ge_rik]

It seems there is little consistency, in how much paint comes out of a rattle-can, and some 'spatter' gobs of paint. - Normally, on the final coat!
Phil.P

Not in my experience I have to say. I use Halford's own brand or 'Hycote' and find both most consistent.

I've had some of those spatter problems with Plastikote aerosols from B&Q, but (as yet) never had a problem with Halfords' range.

Rik

[Peter Butler]

Plastikote is definitely OFF my list of approved aerosols, it doesn't spray as well as the others mentioned and takes much longer to dry. I think is is a thicker consistency too, so hides much fine detail.

[Trevor Thompson]

Well since no one else has said anything positive about airbrushing I had better say something!

It doesn't matter what airbrush you buy - they will all work and give you experience of using them!

I have one from Machinery Mart - which has a removable cup underneath it. It can take the sort of small paint bottles which Humbrol airbrushes used. It works, and I get good results with it. It is more useful for painting large areas - like the whole locomotive - but I can paint detail as well using the cup.

I also have a cheap Chinese one bought via the usual auction site. It has the cup on top of the airbrush - it was the cup on top which made me buy it - and I think it is easier to use when I paint figures as I can change colour easily and quickly.

As for air supply - I have a large compressor in the garage for painting cars (well land rovers actually) - so I just piped that through to my modelling workshop. Some form of compressor however small is probably required. I am sure you can use the spare wheel off the car (if it has one) but it avoids frustration to have a reliable automatically regulated air supply.

I didn't find it hard to use. However I have to admit that I have sprayed land rovers - not always successfully - but it all adds up to practicing.

Painting models - I mostly use Acrylic airbrush paint as sold in the model shops but I buy it via that auction site. I just set it up so that the paint is coming out fairly quickly - which involves moving a rod at the back of the brush in and out and clamping it in a new position. You can use it to supply very little paint so it builds up slowly - which is better for weathering and the like. When painting just keep it moving. It can be used by opening the thumb valve when it is over the model - but it is easier to get the paint flowing to one side of the model and shut it off at the other side. Adjust the paint flow correctly and you can swing it back and for like they do when painting cars. The trick is not to put it on thick enough to make it run. It is easy - because you can leave it a minute or so and then paint again. I don't often let the paint dry properly between coats.

I also use Humbrol and other model paints with the airbrushes.

Of course it would be a good idea to try it out on an unimportant model first - and build up experience. I didn't do that I just rushed in and started painting models. I made mistakes but they were not unresolvable.

All of my models except the large buildings are airbrushed.

I wouldn't class myself as an "expert", nor am I particularly into weathering, but a couple of examples to show how it can be used when you get used to it:

IMG_3104.JPG (2.01 MiB) Viewed 3101 times

This is a signal box kit. Look at the roof. Firstly a thin line of black was airbrushed into all the gaps between the shingles straying from low down so the paint goes into the cracks. Then it was overpainted with the lighter brown, but with the spray directed from overhead so that the paint couldn't reach the cracks. Then a redder brown was painted on to the lower half of the shingles. Then the walls something similar but then concentrating on just opening the trigger to apply the darker paint around the edges of the panels to try to suggest the darkening of the wood in the ends of the planks.

IMG_3106.JPG (2.84 MiB) Viewed 3101 times

My Cleminson 6 wheel coal wagon. Painted all over with many layers of the basic red paint. Then a light spray of black, from low down, onto the chassis itself, and then very lightly from underneath to "dirty" the bottom of the body, trying to just get a thin layer of black where the dirt might accumulate. I noticed in photos that there ware rust marks below the rings - so a light covering of light brown just in those areas. Because it is airbrushed it fades out and is not and even coat - which is what it needs - I want it to look like rusty water has run down in rivulets.

IMG_3108.JPG (1.67 MiB) Viewed 3101 times

Lastly people. Bear in mind that I am modelling the 1870's and dark clothing at that time was not colour fast. Modern loco drivers may wear dark blue clothes but in that period many working clothes would have looked very faded. You can see photos of Ffestiniog drivers with dark marks above the knees, etc. So taking that as an explanation for what I am trying to do, The clothing is airbrushed (Hats included). Firstly the dark blue all over, a couple of coats to achieve a solid colour. ( airbrush acrylic are often slightly transparent which is intended to help with the creation of effects by building up different coloured layers). Then selectively light coats of lighter blue, and then even lighter coats of white. Then black lightly sprayed on all the places where clothes get dirty, knees bums, arms etc. You might not like what I have done - but I think it authentic for the period. Shoes airbrushed.

The faces and detail are all hand brushed. I try to include the whites of the eye and the eye ball - using a magnifying lamp.

There are loads of videos on Utube which you can use when you feel the need to try to use it as an airbrush as apposed to a spray gun. Just do it, I don't think you will regret it.

Trevor

[Phil.P]

Yah!

Thank you Trevor.

All I need now, is a 'definitely don't buy...' and 'have a look at...' and you can all go back to the paint-shop.


Phil.P

[-steves-]

I have had some experience of airbrushes, but by no means am I good, great or a know it all, I am just a humble beginner.

I started with a cheap one (well 2 actually) that came with a small compressor, the compressor I still use today and has been perfect, though it does get quite warm after a while. I tried the airbrushes, one was good for covering large areas (like an entire loco) and the other was designed for finer work. Anyway, long story short, they were both utter crud and I eventually invested in an Iwata Revolution CR and have never looked back. It's great for doing an entire loco (with very very little paint) and great for weathering and better still if you have a steady hand you can even write with it, but my writing is somewhat to be desired even with a pen. Compared to rattle cans (which I still use as well) the costs are massively different. Halfords cans tend to be good but the cost to do one loco with primer, main colour and top coat is about £20 worth (loco size dependant), with an airbrush I can do the same for less than a fiver, it soon saves money, but you do need more coats as it puts far less paint on.

The comparison is simple for me.

Iwata - Always gives the same results, easy to clean, easy to take apart and just gives the finish I expect.

Cheap chinese - Always gives differing results, always gets blocked, a nightmare to clean and some don't even come apart all that much.

Unfortunately, as with most things, you do seem to get what you pay for although I honestly couldn't tell you what the differences are, other than one works well and one doesn't. As with all these things, this is just my personal experience.

If anyone has seen Hughie, that was all done on an airbrush.

Hope that helps.

[Phil.P]

Thanks for that Steve..

Lateral thinking:

Are the same compressors used for 'air-assist' on laser-cutters?

Phil.P

[-steves-]

Yes and no. My wife has an airbrush that runs on a fish tank type air pump which works "ok". My one is a piston type with a tank which means you get a consistent air pressure as it has an air tank and adjustable air pressure. It is however exceptionally quiet.

[Andrew]

This is a really interesting thread, thanks all.

I'd always assumed that most of you were using airbrushes, and that I was winging it slightly by not painting my models "properly"!

I find spray varnishing with rattlecans trickiest, partly because I generally want a matt finish, sometimes over enamel paint - for the latter, I've only found Humbrol stuff in a can, which is expensive, comes in small cans and needs just the right conditions. That's tricky, because I don't have a spray booth, so many of my builds are scheduled around the weather - that's one reason they take so long! I have varnished in the kitchen extension when the family are out, with the doors, windows and skylights open, which seemed to work, but probably isn't advisable.

I do fancy playing with an airbrush sometime, particularly to explore further weathering techniques...

Andrew.

PS The Cleminson waggon looks great Trevor!

[Phil.P]

The 'reservoir' (tank) and automatic compressors I know of, tend to be wheel-barrow sized, and quite noisey.. - Definitely overkill for an airbrush, and possibly for 'air-assist' as well.

Something smaller, and quieter, that could be used in a domestic environment, would probably be better?

This will probably have to wait until the autumn / winter.. Have to get Jane's treatment behind us, we have various commitments, until late into the year.
Fund-raising in Wales, I have committed to be at the Llanfair show, D No.1 is getting married, and we have a property to get work done to, clear, and on the market..

Phil.P

[Trevor Thompson]

This is a really interesting thread, thanks all.

I'd always assumed that most of you were using airbrushes, and that I was winging it slightly by not painting my models "properly"!

I find spray varnishing with rattlecans trickiest, partly because I generally want a matt finish, sometimes over enamel paint - for the latter, I've only found Humbrol stuff in a can, which is expensive, comes in small cans and needs just the right conditions. That's tricky, because I don't have a spray booth, so many of my builds are scheduled around the weather - that's one reason they take so long! I have varnished in the kitchen extension when the family are out, with the doors, windows and skylights open, which seemed to work, but probably isn't advisable.

I do fancy playing with an airbrush sometime, particularly to explore further weathering techniques...

Andrew.

PS The Cleminson waggon looks great Trevor!

Thanks Andrew

I admit to doing something different for varnishes. I have Valejo Varnish which says it is Acrylic / Polyurethane. Separate container of matt and gloss - although I use matt mostly. I have used it in the airbrush - but the instructions say to brush on 2 thin coats - and that works. Varnishing with a brush is OK since I am not trying to restrict which part of the model gets coated.

Trevor

[Trevor Thompson]

I have had some experience of airbrushes, but by no means am I good, great or a know it all, I am just a humble beginner.

I started with a cheap one (well 2 actually) that came with a small compressor, the compressor I still use today and has been perfect, though it does get quite warm after a while. I tried the airbrushes, one was good for covering large areas (like an entire loco) and the other was designed for finer work. Anyway, long story short, they were both utter crud and I eventually invested in an Iwata Revolution CR and have never looked back. It's great for doing an entire loco (with very very little paint) and great for weathering and better still if you have a steady hand you can even write with it, but my writing is somewhat to be desired even with a pen. Compared to rattle cans (which I still use as well) the costs are massively different. Halfords cans tend to be good but the cost to do one loco with primer, main colour and top coat is about £20 worth (loco size dependant), with an airbrush I can do the same for less than a fiver, it soon saves money, but you do need more coats as it puts far less paint on.

The comparison is simple for me.

Iwata - Always gives the same results, easy to clean, easy to take apart and just gives the finish I expect.

Cheap chinese - Always gives differing results, always gets blocked, a nightmare to clean and some don't even come apart all that much.

Unfortunately, as with most things, you do seem to get what you pay for although I honestly couldn't tell you what the differences are, other than one works well and one doesn't. As with all these things, this is just my personal experience.

If anyone has seen Hughie, that was all done on an airbrush.

Hope that helps.

Hmm.... Perhaps I should look at getting a better airbrush. I have always been put off by the prices. I know that usually you get what you pay for.

Trevor

[DafyddElvy]

that's one reason they take so long! I have varnished in the kitchen extension when the family are out, with the doors, windows and skylights open, which seemed to work, but probably isn't advisable.

I tonged in cheek said to a friend put the spray booth on the stove and link the out hose to the extractor, he tried this and it worked fine, you wouldn't know he had used the kitchen extractor to vent the fumes.

If using a rattle can I generally paint outside and hang the painted model under the extractor hood, if the painted item is heavy I raise the level of the board closer to the extractor hood in the hope fumes aren't detected in the house, so I have been lucky and I've not been found out. The painted item does need about 3-4 hours in a warm house under the extraction hood for the fumes to clear.

David