Garden Railway Forum

I wanted to share a few photos of some carriages I've built over the last few months. I went for a GWR inspired chocolate & cream finish with indian red window frames. New to 16mm modelling these are my first carriages, I'm pretty happy overall with the finish. The 'first class' balcony carriage is missing it's facades as they were extremely fragile so I decided to remove them before they broke during use.

One big difficulty I faced was fitting the rooves (roofs?). Two of the kits had wooden rooves, which were somewhat easier to fit. The plastic roof on the balcony carriage caused no end of stress! I bought one of the IP engineering roof jigs but still struggled - any tips anyone has for getting a good finish when fitting a roof would be greatly appreciated!

They are absolutely amazing, a very big well done, they look great

Very nicely done.

Roofs are always a bit of a pain. Depending on how they are formed, slightly over curving before gluing can help to avoid the switchback effect. Also adding an extra thickness at the top of the walls before fitting the roof can give a bit more for the glue to bite on. Finally, laying a stiffener along the tops at the edges to spread/even out the prsdure and then holding with rubber bands whilst the glue sets, can help with the switchbacks.

Hi George and welcome to the Forum.
For a first time build you have shown a high level of skill in putting those kits together. I have had some experience with IP kits and my findings are they leave much to be desired. They usually need additional pieces (not supplied) to add strength and support.
The roof assembly is best done by forming a ribbed framework, whether in wood or HIP. I found that a cradle is best to lay all the pieces on while the glue is drying, once set you can either have it fixed or removable...... This shows one method of keeping everything in place, although 2 clamps and a length of timber is better!.... You have painted the panels and overlays separately before final assembly, which is the best way to give a crisp edge. My guess is that you have used spots of superglue to attach the overlays when I prefer canopy adhesive..... This is wonderful stuff which sticks almost everything but dries clear and doesn't affect paintwork. Any in the wrong place is easily wiped off before it sets or peeled off after.
During lock-down I did a series of kit builds to show how manufacturers differ in design and materials. I was interested to see how they differed, some very basic yet others have gone to extremes with jigs to prevent movement and maintain perfect alignment. The cost varies quite a bit, but not in the way you might expect.
If you search on my thread, 'Time to build a railway.... ' under Railways and Layouts section, beginning at page 150, I cover about 6 or 7 kits.

Thank all you for the kind words!

The roof assembly is best done by forming a ribbed framework, whether in wood or HIP. I found that a cradle is best to lay all the pieces on while the glue is drying, once set you can either have it fixed or removable......

Thanks Peter - that looks like a much better way of forming the roof. I'll keep that in mind for my next kit build. I had attempted to squash the roof into place using cans of dog food but it wasn't all that effective..
I've ordered some Canopy Glue as well, thanks for the suggestion. I did use superglue to attach the exterior parts. I used plastizap on the windows which seems to not leave the white stain of superglue at least, not sure why I didn't think to try using elsewhere!

If that last picture is what you describe as the IP Engineering roof former, there is no way that could give equal support along the whole length.
The ripple effect is guaranteed with such a system but possibly improved by sticking a sheet of thin ply to the formers along the whole length?

I can only echo what others have said, a superb series of builds. Your first introduction to garden railways is off to a very good start.
Grant.

After a few issues like yours with roofs, I now use planks on rooves on all my scratchbuilds.

In my case, like Peter Butler, my principal construction material is plastic sheet, but I've used the same approach for the models I've made from wood. My planks are generally 10mm wide and 2mm thick. .
I then put a thin (0.5mm) single layer over the top. .
With wood this could be thin card or fabric. After all, this is how they used to make real roofs on rolling stock. I generally use quite a few more roof cross members than you might be using, but they are easy to replicate.

Rik

Peter Butler wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:12 pm If that last picture is what you describe as the IP Engineering roof former, there is no way that could give equal support along the whole length.
The ripple effect is guaranteed with such a system but possibly improved by sticking a sheet of thin ply to the formers along the whole length?

This sounds like a good improvement. I'm now eying up some new kits so will look to make this modification.

ge_rik wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:52 am After a few issues like yours with roofs, I now use planks on rooves on all my scratchbuilds.

In my case, like Peter Butler, my principal construction material is plastic sheet, but I've used the same approach for the models I've made from wood. My planks are generally 10mm wide and 2mm thick.

Thanks for sharing these pictures. Lots to consider for future projects!

We've added wooden strips along the length of the roof former, much more effective and even than the standard kit.
We've now replaced the roofs of all carriages with rolled aluminium...

Ive used rolled metal sheet. Afterwards the sheet needs to be trimmed as the first few mm are "flat" due to the nature of the rolling machine. Soldered lugs on the oposite sides for holding with screw.

maybe the best method is to glue the roof to the body and make this detachable from the chassis. The interior is fitted on the base.

In order to eliminate the flat area when rolling sheet metal roll a short distance (say 25mm)from the rear of the rollers first. (In reverse) Then remove the part and roll from the front as normal starting with the pre rolled end.

Nice carriages! I love the livery, particularly the black panelling and the red droplights, just lovely!

I also use the planked roof technique, I made one last night, in fact. I tape it back together once I've cut my planks, then turn it over and apply the "felt" - usually an old t-shirt, but I think I'll try Peter's (I think?) suggestion of curtain lining this time around.

I built one of those IP balcony carriages too, modifying it to look something like a (short) Ffestiniog example - I created new balcony rails with coat hanger wire and large split pins, and that's pretty durable. As you've said, the original wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes...

Thanks for the pictures,

Andrew.

Andrew wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:15 pm I built one of those IP balcony carriages too, modifying it to look something like a (short) Ffestiniog example - I created new balcony rails with coat hanger wire and large split pins, and that's pretty durable. As you've said, the original wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes...

Great idea. I was wondering what to replace them with! I keep getting flashbacks to fitting the roof when I look at that carriage so it might be a project for a later date

georgesheppard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:32 pm

Andrew wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:15 pm I built one of those IP balcony carriages too, modifying it to look something like a (short) Ffestiniog example - I created new balcony rails with coat hanger wire and large split pins, and that's pretty durable. As you've said, the original wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes...

Great idea. I was wondering what to replace them with! I keep getting flashbacks to fitting the roof when I look at that carriage so it might be a project for a later date

Glad you like the idea! Here's how mine came out (pre-painting, obviously!), including the Ffestiniog mods:




Roofs are a nightmare - as I recall the one on this carriage came out pretty wonky!

All the best,

Andrew.

Andrew wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:16 am

georgesheppard wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:32 pm

Andrew wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:15 pm I built one of those IP balcony carriages too, modifying it to look something like a (short) Ffestiniog example - I created new balcony rails with coat hanger wire and large split pins, and that's pretty durable. As you've said, the original wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes...

Great idea. I was wondering what to replace them with! I keep getting flashbacks to fitting the roof when I look at that carriage so it might be a project for a later date

Glad you like the idea! Here's how mine came out (pre-painting, obviously!), including the Ffestiniog mods:




Roofs are a nightmare - as I recall the one on this carriage came out pretty wonky!

All the best,

Andrew.

Looks great Andrew!

My IP coach rake. I used thin ply for the roof in place of the plastic card provided. I used 3 or 4 elastic bands with some thin planks between the roof and rubber bands to hold everything till the glue went off. The van is also an IP WD van which I altered to a curved roof and used the same thin ply. The stock also has toilet papered roofs to represent felting which was placed over the ply then dabbed with diluted PVA glue. Love your stock, the livery suits it very well!

pippindoo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:04 pm IMG_20190405_162422.jpg
My IP coach rake. I used thin ply for the roof in place of the plastic card provided. I used 3 or 4 elastic bands with some thin planks between the roof and rubber bands to hold everything till the glue went off. The van is also an IP WD van which I altered to a curved roof and used the same thin ply. The stock also has toilet papered roofs to represent felting which was placed over the ply then dabbed with diluted PVA glue. Love your stock, the livery suits it very well!

Looking good pippindoo! I think customising the roof is the way forward. I'm waiting on some kits from the The Line Side Hut, I think the roof construction is more advanced so hopefully I'll have fewer issues!

georgesheppard wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:37 pm I'm waiting on some kits from the The Line Side Hut, I think the roof construction is more advanced so hopefully I'll have fewer issues!

My experience of building Lineside Hut kits has been positive. From passenger coaches, where the roof ribs have been fitted first to add strength to the side walls..... To the elaborate jig supplied with the Curly Roof Van kit..... Everything needed is supplied.

Lineside Hut carriages are good! We have a Corris coach and van (modified to have a ducket). We did scrap the original roof's and replace them with aluminium but there was no doubt the roofs on them are designed well. The bracing was kept to add rigidity to the carriage sides.
The only metal roofed carriage that ever gives issues is our model of WHR 23. This has a steel roof - good when in the traditional modern WHR position of "behind the Garratt" but it does tend to pull carriages off the track that are in front of it!
Once the bug boxes are finished I'll test them and see if the carriage pulls them off.