A bit of time in the shed

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-steves-
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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:19 pm

tom_tom_go wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:51 pm
How much are you selling these units for?
The 0-4-0 chassis runs at about £65 and the 0-6-0 chassis with the extra rear drive crank runs at about £100, an 0-6-0 chassis with no rear crank probably around £85 I would think. These are just rough as they do not really include any time as I am just doing them for fun :thumbup: Obviously I don't really take orders as I am not a business and one chassis takes me over a week to make assuming I get a fair bit of shed time, so in reality around 2 weeks to build just one chassis, lol :lol:
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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by FWLR » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:59 am

Well I think you are doing a nice job on them Steve. I am well impressed... :thumbright:

I will be putting an order in for both when funds are available. But one at a time.

Do they come with the R/C has well Steve....I am cheeky..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Rod

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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:35 am

FWLR wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:59 am
Well I think you are doing a nice job on them Steve. I am well impressed... :thumbright:

I will be putting an order in for both when funds are available. But one at a time.

Do they come with the R/C has well Steve....I am cheeky..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hi Rod

That's ok, they take me ages to make so no rush on any orders :) No R/C I am afraid as just the RX/ESC is around £45 these days. The motors are 12v to 24v unless otherwise requested, however the one in the video is a 12-24v motor being run on about 8.2v and it works ok, but would need more voltage to pull heavy loads. :thumbup:
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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:33 pm

Well that's the first two completed (apart from buying one motor as it's shared at the moment).

The 0-6-0 is just about as short as I can get it, but the 0-4-0 I can make pretty much as short as the wheels fit to as long as I need, pretty handy as I might build myself a couple of bogie motor units at some point in the future and make another 0-4-0 0-4-0 diesel unit.

For now I just have to decide what bodies I can start to build for the chassis, though the first one I intend to make into the Whisbech / Upwell tram type thing.

I think at some point I will try a steam outline electric but that will take some more planning and designing to get it to work.

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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by GTB » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:03 am

Thanks for that. Your description kicked my mind out of a rut. For some reason I had got it fixed in my head when machining cranks to drill the axle hole, then drill and tap for the crankpin and finally drill and tap for the grub screw. Sigh.........

By using the sequence of axle, then grub screw and finally the crankpin, only a simple drilling fixture is needed. I'm waiting on some bits again, so I knocked one up yesterday afternoon.

The photo shows the fixture that I made earlier for machining the quartering flats on the left and the fixture to hold the crank while drilling and tapping for the crankpin on the right. I use a standard size axle for locos, so I only need one set of fixtures for outside cranks.

Outside Crank Jigs.jpg

The only reason they are machined all over is that the only suitable size piece of square bar under the bench was hot rolled steel and far from square, so the surfaces needed cleaning up. I used a fly cutter instead of a milling cutter, as the mill scale on hot rolled steel is as abrasive as the skin on an iron casting and fly cutters are a lot easier to sharpen than a milling cutter.

The axle retaining screw in the quartering fixture is positioned diagonally to use it as a marker, so if it is always facing forward in the vice the quartering flats will be at 90deg when the fixture is changed end for end.

It's a bit hard to see, but there is a flat milled on the 'axle' end sticking out of the crank drilling fixture, effectively it is just a stub axle sticking out of half a quartering jig, but is machined in one piece to maintain alignment.

With a DRO on the mill and a self-centering 4 jaw chuck in the lathe, making these fixtures was quick and easy. I'm not a great fan of jigs/fixtures, so the simpler the better.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by FWLR » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:53 am

They do look the business Steve...Could a 0-4-0 be used has a power bogie....Are you getting what I am looking at for my Railcar...... :roll:
Rod

Life is so easy when I run my trains. :thumbright:

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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:52 pm

GTB wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:03 am
Thanks for that. Your description kicked my mind out of a rut. For some reason I had got it fixed in my head when machining cranks to drill the axle hole, then drill and tap for the crankpin and finally drill and tap for the grub screw. Sigh.........

By using the sequence of axle, then grub screw and finally the crankpin, only a simple drilling fixture is needed. I'm waiting on some bits again, so I knocked one up yesterday afternoon.

The photo shows the fixture that I made earlier for machining the quartering flats on the left and the fixture to hold the crank while drilling and tapping for the crankpin on the right. I use a standard size axle for locos, so I only need one set of fixtures for outside cranks.


Outside Crank Jigs.jpg


The only reason they are machined all over is that the only suitable size piece of square bar under the bench was hot rolled steel and far from square, so the surfaces needed cleaning up. I used a fly cutter instead of a milling cutter, as the mill scale on hot rolled steel is as abrasive as the skin on an iron casting and fly cutters are a lot easier to sharpen than a milling cutter.

The axle retaining screw in the quartering fixture is positioned diagonally to use it as a marker, so if it is always facing forward in the vice the quartering flats will be at 90deg when the fixture is changed end for end.

It's a bit hard to see, but there is a flat milled on the 'axle' end sticking out of the crank drilling fixture, effectively it is just a stub axle sticking out of half a quartering jig, but is machined in one piece to maintain alignment.

With a DRO on the mill and a self-centering 4 jaw chuck in the lathe, making these fixtures was quick and easy. I'm not a great fan of jigs/fixtures, so the simpler the better.

Regards,
Graeme
Strangely enough and before seeing this post I was in the workshop today finishing off a batch of 12 wheels. While I was in there I decided that some sort of tool could prove useful of doing cranks. Unfortunately I did not have the same idea as you as that would have been far quicker and easier to make. But I took a bit of 1" square block, milled out two of the sides to give me something to grip in the vice that won't move and will always be flat compared to the mill head. Then turned it over, put it in the vice and used a fly cutter to ensure the top was parallel with the bottom. I then milled out one end by 4mm deep (which is the shoulder of the length of my cranks) then I am going to drill a 4mm hole in it to take a cut off of axle, which will have a side milled flat. This will be held in the tool with a grub screw (or two) from the side and the crank slid over it and held with a grub screw. The top will than have a slot milled in it so that when I drill the crank I won't be drilling the tool. It's not finished yet, but when it is I will post up a picture.

Love this finish on your tooling, very neat, unlike my very rough finishes. :thumbup:
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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:56 pm

FWLR wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:53 am
They do look the business Steve...Could a 0-4-0 be used has a power bogie....Are you getting what I am looking at for my Railcar...... :roll:
I am not sure exactly what you mean as this will always have outside cranks where as the power bogies I have seen generally have no cranks or con rods and everything is held inside the unit. I think Essel do a power bogie that I am thinking of. I have not worked out how to do a 4 wheel drive power bogie with no cranks and the downside to power bogies I have seen is that the motor is usually mounted vertically.

Do you have a larger picture of what you are looking for and I can have a think and see if I can knock something up to suit :)
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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by Busted Bricks » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:12 pm

Those chassis are really nice. If you get fed up cutting out frames and connecting rods by hand let me know. They wouldn't cost a lot to laser cut.

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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:41 pm

Busted Bricks wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:12 pm
Those chassis are really nice. If you get fed up cutting out frames and connecting rods by hand let me know. They wouldn't cost a lot to laser cut.
Thanks, appreciate that, we will see how it goes :thumbup:
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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by FWLR » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:04 am

Something for this Steve.

DSCN4059.JPG

Cranks wouldn't be needed really, just the ability to move like front and rear bogies. Yes the ones I have seen are all with the motor pointing up. I want to replace the one in my Railcar with a power bogie. I would be using the motor as is, so it's a question of if it can be done.... :thumbright:
Rod

Life is so easy when I run my trains. :thumbright:

🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃

https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364

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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:02 pm

FWLR wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:04 am
Something for this Steve.


DSCN4059.JPG


Cranks wouldn't be needed really, just the ability to move like front and rear bogies. Yes the ones I have seen are all with the motor pointing up. I want to replace the one in my Railcar with a power bogie. I would be using the motor as is, so it's a question of if it can be done.... :thumbright:
I would think anything is possible, but for something that specific I would need the entire railcar at hand to measure and see what would fit. A shame you are not closer or you could have popped over and we could have seen if we could have made something to fit.

What is wrong with the one that's in it?
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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:08 pm

GTB wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:03 am
Thanks for that. Your description kicked my mind out of a rut. For some reason I had got it fixed in my head when machining cranks to drill the axle hole, then drill and tap for the crankpin and finally drill and tap for the grub screw. Sigh.........

By using the sequence of axle, then grub screw and finally the crankpin, only a simple drilling fixture is needed. I'm waiting on some bits again, so I knocked one up yesterday afternoon.

The photo shows the fixture that I made earlier for machining the quartering flats on the left and the fixture to hold the crank while drilling and tapping for the crankpin on the right. I use a standard size axle for locos, so I only need one set of fixtures for outside cranks.


Outside Crank Jigs.jpg


The only reason they are machined all over is that the only suitable size piece of square bar under the bench was hot rolled steel and far from square, so the surfaces needed cleaning up. I used a fly cutter instead of a milling cutter, as the mill scale on hot rolled steel is as abrasive as the skin on an iron casting and fly cutters are a lot easier to sharpen than a milling cutter.

The axle retaining screw in the quartering fixture is positioned diagonally to use it as a marker, so if it is always facing forward in the vice the quartering flats will be at 90deg when the fixture is changed end for end.

It's a bit hard to see, but there is a flat milled on the 'axle' end sticking out of the crank drilling fixture, effectively it is just a stub axle sticking out of half a quartering jig, but is machined in one piece to maintain alignment.

With a DRO on the mill and a self-centering 4 jaw chuck in the lathe, making these fixtures was quick and easy. I'm not a great fan of jigs/fixtures, so the simpler the better.

Regards,
Graeme
Well my attempt is now finished and seems to work well too. Once set up once for zero it's very quick and easy to pop a new crank on and drill it, it will save me sooooo much time going forwards :thumbup: Thanks for the idea of making a tool for this, both yourself and Ian. :thumbup:

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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by GTB » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:51 pm

-steves- wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:08 pm
Once set up once for zero it's very quick and easy to pop a new crank on and drill it, it will save me sooooo much time going forwards
My initial idea was similar to that, except it would have located the crank from the crankpin hole, so I could drill the hole for the grub screw. Then I had a better idea.....

Saving time on batches of parts is what jigs are about. I even went to the trouble of making a spindle stop for the lathe, to reduce setup time for turning rolling stock axles.

The finish on the jigs is only like that because of the mill scale on the bits of steel I used. The flycutter could go blunt halfway through a cut and had to be resharpened multiple times for the axle milling jig, so the final cut was always with a newly sharpened tool, just to keep things square...... :roll:

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: A bit of time in the shed

Post by -steves- » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:00 pm

GTB wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:51 pm


I even went to the trouble of making a spindle stop for the lathe, to reduce setup time for turning rolling stock axles.

Regards,
Graeme
I will be honest and confess I have no idea what a spindle stop is or how it works? :oops:
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