Another Wild Rose Project

[-steves-]

For someone who has very little experience with lathes Steve, I think you are doing a fantastic job. And the guys are giving you some very good advice and you will get even better with their help.

It won't be long before your Lathe will get to look like an apprenticed trained skilled Engineer.....

Thanks again Rod

The guys on here give me some very helpful and useful advice and it's all very well appreciated, that's what I like about this forum, the diversity and variety of skills and knowledge on here.

Let's hope I can live up to the high expectations I am setting myself as I do make lots of mistakes along the way, but so far I have either been able to rectify them or remake them. Their might come a time when I just can't work out how to do something and grind to a halt, which worries me a bit as I don't have the engineering background of many people, all I know is I love trying and I love building things

[Peter Butler]

I'll say it again.... 'I'm not an engineer' but I do appreciate your work and description of the methods you employ. We both use different tools and materials but our passions are the same in that we push ourselves to fulfil our expectations of our own abilities and find ways to achieve that.
Keep going and show us what you can do.

[-steves-]

I'll say it again.... 'I'm not an engineer' but I do appreciate your work and description of the methods you employ. We both use different tools and materials but our passions are the same in that we push ourselves to fulfil our expectations of our own abilities and find ways to achieve that.
Keep going and show us what you can do.

Thanks Peter, appreciate the kind words. As you say, we all work with different materials in different ways and as long as we enjoy our hobby, that's what it is all about

[FWLR]

I'll say it again.... 'I'm not an engineer' but I do appreciate your work and description of the methods you employ. We both use different tools and materials but our passions are the same in that we push ourselves to fulfil our expectations of our own abilities and find ways to achieve that.
Keep going and show us what you can do.

Thanks Peter, appreciate the kind words. As you say, we all work with different materials in different ways and as long as we enjoy our hobby, that's what it is all about

Totally agree there guys....

[-steves-]

Did a couple of bits today, managed to get the bronze bearings made (all the same size for a change) as well as the cylinders and covers drilled out ready to be tapped (better still, I managed to not drill through the sides of the cylinders which I fully expected to do as I usually do on that kind of tight limits)

[FWLR]

Nice job Steve...

[IanC]

Steve, I am not an engineer, I haven't worked in, or for, industry. It doesn't stop me from following your threads and builds with interest. I doubt I will ever own a lathe, pillar drill or any other type of engineering machinery but there are still things I can learn and I enjoy seeing something come together to the finished article. I follow your reports and builds with much interest.

[-steves-]

Nice job Steve...

Thanks Rod, appreciate it

[-steves-]

Steve, I am not an engineer, I haven't worked in, or for, industry. It doesn't stop me from following your threads and builds with interest. I doubt I will ever own a lathe, pillar drill or any other type of engineering machinery but there are still things I can learn and I enjoy seeing something come together to the finished article. I follow your reports and builds with much interest.

Ian, honestly, it's really nice to know that someone follows my random waffling posts and looks forward to seeing the finished loco.

We all work with different things and there was certainly a time where I could not see me owning a lathe, a mill nor anything else engineering wose, but I took the plunge a few years ago and decided, you are never too old to learn and unless you try, you will never know. So far the end results of my builds in both plasticard and more recently in metal have have honestly surprised me more than anyone as I never knew I had it in me

I have no idea if this latest project will ever get finished let alone run, but the fact that I have started and I am thoroughly enjoying it so far, puts me further forward than it would if I had not tried

[-steves-]

OK, bit of a learning curve today and some lessons were taken away from my time in the workshop.

1) Do not try and over tap when using a brand new 10ba tap, it breaks and makes the cylinder you spent ages making completely worthless and you have to make another one
2) When waiting for a die to turn up in the post, do not try and pre make the bolts and part them off, wait for the die to turn up and thread them before you part them off, otherwise bad things can happen.
3) Read the instructions, then read them again, then put them down and pick them up later and read them again before you make any parts, otherwise you will be making more parts than you thought you would AND you might end up missing making some parts, like only making 2 crank arms instead of 3
4) When drilling something that needs 2 holes, do not remove it from the vice and try to centre it again, chance are you will end up remaking that part, again and again!

Tap broken off in one of the cylinders.



Right, the bad bits out the way, I managed to get the cylinders finished, despite having to remake one of them, they are now all bored out, shaped, front caps made, rear ends make and tapped (though the do need another 10ba hole drilling), just waiting on the 10ba bolts to turn up in the post before they can be put together.

The chassis spacers have been made, drilled and tapped and fit very nicely to the chassis side plates.

Two of the four crank arms have been made (error on reading instructions), so just two more to make at some point, but they went well, drilled, reamed, tapped and shaped, they took some time to file to shape!

Some pictures below covering the parts made so far and the various stages they are at.

Broken parts to the right of the chassis plates.

http://www.pictures.strickson.com:8080/ ... b6b-me.jpg



Parts made so far





Start of the footplate being on the making, lots and lots of work to do on that before it looks like the final product!





Trying to show the home made 10ba bolts for the cranks and the other little bits made, very small but still take quite some time to make The bars with the milled ends and the two holes in have been remade, again!

[dewintondave]

Very good Steve. You'll get a feel for how much force a 10BA tap can take.

[-steves-]

Very good Steve. You'll get a feel for how much force a 10BA tap can take.

I knew I was on the limits as it started that "squeak" that you get in brass as it starts to bottom out, I just thought I had about a 1/4 to 1/2 a turn left, I was wrong, lol.

Dave, what is the strength difference between a carbon steel tap and a HSS tap? Seems to be quite a price difference so would it help prevent this kind of thing?

[FWLR]

Very good Steve. You'll get a feel for how much force a 10BA tap can take.

I knew I was on the limits as it started that "squeak" that you get in brass as it starts to bottom out, I just thought I had about a 1/4 to 1/2 a turn left, I was wrong, lol.

Dave, what is the strength difference between a carbon steel tap and a HSS tap? Seems to be quite a price difference so would it help prevent this kind of thing?

Good job Steve, lots done. You are experiencing what most of us have done....Just that little bit more will do it.

You will find Steve, that carbon steel is the much older material that was used for machining and especially taps. High Speed Steel (HSS) is that it can withstand higher temperatures without losing its temper (hardness).

Keep with it Steve, your'e doing a great job and it's all a learning curve. Don't get disheartened with mishaps, let them inspire you to be an engineer that is proud of his/her work. Remember Steve, you don't need qualifications to be regarded has someone who can do the job.

[dewintondave]

I always buy carbon steel Steve, it's good for what we do. I jumped scales so I could wave goodbye to 10 BA

[GTB]

OK, bit of a learning curve today and some lessons were taken away from my time in the workshop.

Einstein is supposed to have said 'A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new'. The model engineering equivalent is probably the box of scrap parts we all accumulate over time. Welcome to the club.......


I usually use carbon steel BA taps for both brass and steel, as much as anything, it's hard to find HSS ones locally. Both types will break if given too much side load, or are overtorqued, as any steel hard enough to be used as a cutting tool is also brittle.

How are you using your taps?

One of the first things I made on the then new lathe was the little tailstock tap holder that is described by Brian Wilson in his book 'Steam Trains in Your Garden' at the start of Chapter 1. The same section of the book has a few paras. on tapping holes and threading parts that contains useful information. Brian is as averse to breaking taps as I am.....

I use the tap holder for tapping all my 10BA and 8BA threaded holes in both brass and steel. The tailstock die holder I made from the same drawing also gets a lot of use. The tap holder works in any chuck, so I use it in the bench drill and/or mill as well, for tapping blocks, sheet metal, etc. Being small it is difficult to apply too much force and it gives you a more sensitive feel for how the tap is cutting. Also important is that it keeps the tap running straight with little risk of bending and snapping it.

I only use conventional tap and die holders for larger threads such as pipe fittings, boiler bushes, etc. I try to only thread components in the mill or the lathe where I can use a plunger tapping guide to keep everything in line.

The other thing I always use is a cutting fluid, in brass and especially in steel. I think I've used about 5ml in the last 8 years, you don't need much.

It's courting fate I know, but I can honestly say I've only broken three small taps (one was a 10BA) in the last 8 years since I changed scale. I use a lot of 10BA screws in my models and the 10BA tap had probably threaded a couple of hundred holes before it broke, so I guess I got my money's worth out of it.

At least brass gives you an audible warning that it is about to jam a tap or a drill. Steel isn't so accommodating.....

Regards,
Graeme

[-steves-]

How are you using your taps?

One of the first things I made on the then new lathe was the little tailstock tap holder that is described by Brian Wilson in his book 'Steam Trains in Your Garden' at the start of Chapter 1. The same section of the book has a few paras. on tapping holes and threading parts that contains useful information. Brian is as averse to breaking taps as I am.....

The other thing I always use is a cutting fluid, in brass and especially in steel. I think I've used about 5ml in the last 8 years, you don't need much.

It's courting fate I know, but I can honestly say I've only broken three small taps (one was a 10BA) in the last 8 years since I changed scale. I use a lot of 10BA screws in my models and the 10BA tap had probably threaded a couple of hundred holes before it broke, so I guess I got my money's worth out of it.

At least brass gives you an audible warning that it is about to jam a tap or a drill. Steel isn't so accommodating.....

Regards,
Graeme

Hi Graeme

I use my taps in my home made tap holder from a cheapo drill press. It ensures I always go in straight with no side force on the tap. The down side is it's rather large and I think a little over the top for what size taps I am starting to use.



My dies I use my homemade die holder in the tailstock on the lathe, these were one of the very first things I ever made years back when I got my first lathe and to this day I am still surprised how well they fit and how well they were finished considering they were made on a badly setup 7 x 14 mini lathe with cheap tools, I doubt I could make them as good as this if I tried now, lol I am aware there is quite a bit of chatter on the surfaces, but still, I am quite proud of them





You have done very well to break so few taps, maybe because they are better quality than mine but no doubt mainly down to knowing how to use them and when to stop.

As for my scrap parts, suffice to say, it already needs a box rather than just a little corner of the worktop as I had no idea what to do with them at first, lol. To be fair, many of them are just going straight in the bin.

I do have cutting fluid, maybe it's about time I started to use it again as I have become lazy with it and stopped using it a while back.

[-steves-]

I always buy carbon steel Steve, it's good for what we do. I jumped scales so I could wave goodbye to 10 BA

Carbon it is then Why do you not use 10ba any more?? How come? What do you use instead? Are you just doing 7 1/4 or 5" now?

[-steves-]

Good job Steve, lots done. You are experiencing what most of us have done....Just that little bit more will do it.

You will find Steve, that carbon steel is the much older material that was used for machining and especially taps. High Speed Steel (HSS) is that it can withstand higher temperatures without losing its temper (hardness).

Keep with it Steve, your'e doing a great job and it's all a learning curve. Don't get disheartened with mishaps, let them inspire you to be an engineer that is proud of his/her work. Remember Steve, you don't need qualifications to be regarded has someone who can do the job.

Thanks Rod.

I did get disheartened when that tap broke, but another way made so not the end of the world, I would say the third one was marginally better anyway and took far less time to make too

In general I am loving this home made loco, keeps me on my toes and I am as keen as any thing, can't wait to get out there and make another bit. I have to admit it's going faster than I thought it would overall, but I can't get over just how long just one part actually takes to make, maybe because I am having to work out what method to use to make something first and can't just crack on with it like an experienced person would. I am also learning how much material I can safely take of using the mill and lathe, so taking it quite gentle compared to someone in the know.

Not sure I would ever call myself an engineer, that's a pretty big label, but certainly a keen trainee

[-steves-]

A small update for today.

I managed to get the other two cranks made today. They aren't all the same identical shape on the outside, however they do all have the exact same bolt / thread spacing so will all rotate at the same measurements I will tidy up the outside of them at some point when my arms stop aching from all that filing down of steel, lol

I also made a start on the frame / cylinder part, not sure what it's called but it is made of 10mm brass which was not the cheapest material I have ever purchased so I am glad that "so far" it's all going to plan and fits the frame very well. I still have some holes to drill and mill so it's not over yet, lol

[dewintondave]

I always buy carbon steel Steve, it's good for what we do. I jumped scales so I could wave goodbye to 10 BA

Carbon it is then Why do you not use 10ba any more?? How come? What do you use instead? Are you just doing 7 1/4 or 5" now?

I'm doing 1' scale now, so 10BA has become a less inclined to snap 8BA Still on 45mm gauge track