Battle of Britain flight

This is the place to talk about news, TV, music and other hobbies

Moderators: Big Jim, laalratty

Post Reply
User avatar
JMORG
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:16 pm
Location: Gloucester

Battle of Britain flight

Post by JMORG » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:23 pm

It's the Battle of Britain day today! Hope you see plenty of memorials wherever you are.
Had a decent friendly debate with a friend (war history buff) about the memorial flight: Should the memorial flight add any German planes to it's roster? Obviously the only suitable (and flying) candidate is the bf109; it's an exceptionally historic aircraft and could be used to represent the brave German pilots who were (like Bomber Harris' bomber crews) simply serving their country; even if it was under the control of Hitler. Interestingly, records from both sides indicate that a significant number of killed pilots received military burials (with full honours) from the opposing side!
What's everyone else's opinion; should the German pilots be represented in the BoB flight?

As a side note; this came from a debate over the banning of German WWII models and memorabilia on Amazon...
Limitations only exist if you let them.

BorisSpencer
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by BorisSpencer » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:23 pm

I would be in favour of this idea, I'm rather uncomfortable with the current approach of trying to erase/rewrite history.
As I imagine a lot on this forum were, I was bought up on the usual crop of war films Dambusters, 633 squadron, Battle of Britain, etc, and feel these probably had a large influence on my moral compass. One that I can never pass up of I see it in the TV listings is The Eagle Has Landed, an absolute gem, damn those evil Irish.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Chairman
Chairman
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:41 am

So that's what are saw in my garden yesterday (I regularly see two seater Spitfires but not a Lancaster!).

I was not brought up on the films mentioned, however, I have watched most of them and they both excite but also make you appreciate what the world went through during those periods of war. Sadly, given today's world I do not think we have learned from these experiences...

The Battle of Britain flight should not include German aircraft in my opinion. The flight represents England defending against all the odds, it's not about being politically correct and representing 'everyone'.

User avatar
JMORG
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:16 pm
Location: Gloucester

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by JMORG » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:22 am

The flight represents England defending against all the odds, it's not about being politically correct and representing 'everyone'.
Fair opinion; just want to point out that my motives are definitely not with the "political correctness" camp (I'd prefer German vehicles to be in correct liveries rather than the censored liveries). It's instead about the German crews who did not necessarily want to fight.
This was why I suggested a single bf109 (a "footnote"), the Americans are represented by the Dakota (now a proper display warbird instead of just the Lanc trainer) and they most certainly were not involved or even willing to help by that point...
Limitations only exist if you let them.

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 3006
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:53 am

tom_tom_go wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:41 am
So that's what are saw in my garden yesterday (I regularly see two seater Spitfires but not a Lancaster!).

Have you been hiding something from us Tom? I thought you had a small garden!
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Chairman
Chairman
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:22 pm

If I had a garden big enough to fit a Lancaster bomber I would not be running 16mm scale!

I live next to the South Eastern and Eurostar railway lines so I guess the Spitfires use them as a way point for flying towards Dover. I regularly see the two seater Spitfires and I use to also have a P51 Mustang over the skies where I live but I think that crashed a while back?

User avatar
philipy
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1352
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants
Contact:

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by philipy » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:25 pm

I think an important point which gets missed in this debate is that it isn't "The Battle of Britain Flight", if it were I can see a justification for including German aircraft since they were obviously 50% of the battle.
It is, correctly, The Battle of Britain MEMORIAL Flight and was conceived as a memorial to those of "The Few" who gave their lives defending Britain. Whether the enemy pilots were willing or not is irrelevant.

User avatar
Soar Valley Light
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1120
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
Location: North West Leicestershire

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by Soar Valley Light » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:49 pm

philipy wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:25 pm
I think an important point which gets missed in this debate is that it isn't "The Battle of Britain Flight", if it were I can see a justification for including German aircraft since they were obviously 50% of the battle.
It is, correctly, The Battle of Britain MEMORIAL Flight and was conceived as a memorial to those of "The Few" who gave their lives defending Britain. Whether the enemy pilots were willing or not is irrelevant.
A valid and well made point Phil.

The sacrifice made by the Axis forces was no less than that made by the Allied forces. The point here is that this is a memorial and it was put together specifically to honour Allied forces. Moreover, it was put together by the comrades who served with those who made the ultimate sacrifice. I can't help but feel that the memorial they established to their fallen friends is not for us to tinker with. Just my opinion, there will be countless others which will be just as valid as my own.

This is one of the great things about this forum - open honest exchange of diverse opinion without censure or criticism. Long may it continue!

Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Chairman
Chairman
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:08 pm

The Nazi's wanted to annihilate us, we don't care about their sacrifice to control the globe!

User avatar
JMORG
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 773
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:16 pm
Location: Gloucester

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by JMORG » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:47 pm

tom_tom_go wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:08 pm
The Nazi's wanted to annihilate us, we don't care about their sacrifice to control the globe!
War is ultimately a political tool for politicians to gain power; with the lowly soldiers paying the price. Of course, the Nazi's were vile degenerate's, but was every German a Nazi?
I view the strategic bombing from both sides to be the ultimate sign that both sides committed great evil; Bomber Harris rightfully is controversial (in my opinion) because historians are skeptical about how much of an impact firebombing cities actually were.
I started this thread mainly because I feel the German soldier has been forgotten due to the censorship of history going on at the moment. In my opinion this should NEVER be censored; it's as if we're forgetting to honour those who suffered due to the actions of all sides. In German it's a slight social taboo for pilots to fly WWII aircraft because of the strict censorship. German military vehicles are actually at risk because of these laws. Again not every pilot/sailor/soldier agreed with Hitler's vision; they simply carried out their orders or were shot for insubordination. I think the Germans should remember those who were innocent during this dark time instead of pretending it never happened...
Limitations only exist if you let them.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Chairman
Chairman
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:56 pm

You have not understood the fact I used the term 'Nazi' instead of 'German'.

They are two very different people...

User avatar
dewintondave
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 353
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:52 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Battle of Britain flight

Post by dewintondave » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:50 am

Adolf Galland, what a handsome chap, had a nasty experience with a 20 mm round from an allied bomber's escorting fighter
300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-2006-0123,_Adolf_Galland.jpg
Best wishes,
Dave

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests