(WH)WHR Buildings
- Peter Butler
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- Location: West Wales
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Yes, I agree with your reply about applying spray paint in cold weather, which I missed completely. I have previously mentioned, elsewhere, that I have found Diane's greenhouse has a second purpose, that of spray painting, as the temperature inside seems to be ideal for that purpose when there is sun showing through the clouds.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?
- Soar Valley Light
- Driver
- Posts: 1451
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
- Location: North West Leicestershire
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Hi Andrew,
I just made the fatal mistake of typing a long reply and then finding it didn't post and lost it!
My fingers are tired so here's a brief summary of the bits about signalling layouts.
I've had a quick look on the internet for WHR (1921) signalling but found nothing. I think the subject may have been discussed on here a few years ago. We used to have a couple of real aficionados on NG signalling on here.
The layout of the lever frame you describe is not unheard of, I've seen an early Midland Railway diagram that was laid out that way. However, it's much more common to have down signals at the down end of the frame, points in the middle and up signals at the up end of the frame. On mainline railways the shunt signals would be arranged around their respective point levers. Narrow gauge lines almost never used shunt signals - hand signals were adequate. Point locks were generally of the economical type too. I also agree that distant signals would be fixed. With the possible exception of the FR (Who had some very non-standard' signalling). Narrow gauge lines were usually low cost affairs so operation and equipment was kept to the basic minimum that the Regulation of Railways and Light Railways Acts demanded.
So, for your frame I would suggest,
1. Signal, Down Home.
2. Signal, Down Starting.
3. Points, Loop Up end.
4. Points, siding no. 1.
5. Points, siding no. 2.
6. Points, Loop Down end.
7. Signal, Up Starting.
8. Signal, Up Home
As a keen gardner I also love the new use for the signal box. Put me down for a pound of tomatoes!
All the best,
Andrew
I just made the fatal mistake of typing a long reply and then finding it didn't post and lost it!
My fingers are tired so here's a brief summary of the bits about signalling layouts.
I've had a quick look on the internet for WHR (1921) signalling but found nothing. I think the subject may have been discussed on here a few years ago. We used to have a couple of real aficionados on NG signalling on here.
The layout of the lever frame you describe is not unheard of, I've seen an early Midland Railway diagram that was laid out that way. However, it's much more common to have down signals at the down end of the frame, points in the middle and up signals at the up end of the frame. On mainline railways the shunt signals would be arranged around their respective point levers. Narrow gauge lines almost never used shunt signals - hand signals were adequate. Point locks were generally of the economical type too. I also agree that distant signals would be fixed. With the possible exception of the FR (Who had some very non-standard' signalling). Narrow gauge lines were usually low cost affairs so operation and equipment was kept to the basic minimum that the Regulation of Railways and Light Railways Acts demanded.
So, for your frame I would suggest,
1. Signal, Down Home.
2. Signal, Down Starting.
3. Points, Loop Up end.
4. Points, siding no. 1.
5. Points, siding no. 2.
6. Points, Loop Down end.
7. Signal, Up Starting.
8. Signal, Up Home
As a keen gardner I also love the new use for the signal box. Put me down for a pound of tomatoes!
All the best,
Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Wow! This is spooky. Clearly I’m ripping off Andrew here… or perhaps we’ve just been doing the same image searches.
Anyway, I’ve cheated and mine's from a kit (Jackson’s Miniatures) though I’ve been attempting to embellish it a bit.
And I have a real cat that will come and sit on it.
Anyway, I’ve cheated and mine's from a kit (Jackson’s Miniatures) though I’ve been attempting to embellish it a bit.
And I have a real cat that will come and sit on it.
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
As others have said Andrew the signal box looks excellent, and fits the railway really well.
Grant.
Grant.
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Love it Andrew. Well done mate, the little details inside are great.
The stove is one I was looking for to go in my garage, but I couldn't seem to find one.
![:thumbright: :thumbright:](./images/smilies/icon_thumleft.gif)
The stove is one I was looking for to go in my garage, but I couldn't seem to find one.
ROD
Life is so easy when I run my trains.
![🚂](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f682.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
![🚃](//cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/twitter/twemoji@latest/assets/svg/1f683.svg)
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364
https://www.youtube.com/@fairywoodlightrailway
Life is so easy when I run my trains.
![:thumbright: :thumbright:](./images/smilies/icon_thumleft.gif)
https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11364
https://www.youtube.com/@fairywoodlightrailway
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
It certainly is! Nice 'box, Bertie! The additional detail you've added looks fantastic, a huge improvement on the basic Jackson model - I didn't recognise it! As you've seen, I'm using Jackson embossed sheets too, and I'm guessing we'll go for similar colour schemes (my guess at WHR building colours is pretty similar to SR green and cream?) so there should be a real family resemblance. I'm impressed with your barge board finials - did you carve them? I've considered various options (beads, some L&B signal finials) but have opted to leave them for now...
Cheers,
Andrew.
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Thank you! I really appreciate it! And sorry about the aching fingers!Soar Valley Light wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:44 pm I just made the fatal mistake of typing a long reply and then finding it didn't post and lost it!
My fingers are tired so here's a brief summary of the bits about signalling layouts.
Your comments on looking for material on WHR/NWNGR signalling prompted me to dig through the olline archive of the excellent WH Heritage Group Journal, and I found an excellent article on the history of the layout at Waenfawr: https://www.welshhighlandheritage.co.uk ... -No-50.pdf
It's a bit technical for me, but seems a fascinating set up... It seems that it didn't have starters (because of trailable loop points), but did have (red) distants and ended up with FPLs - which were worked from the box even though the points weren't, which seems odd to me? And I hadn't realised that the signals were taken out of use long before WHR days, when the NWNGR gained its Light Railway Order in 1906, although it seems they weren't actually felled until the WHR takeover.
Thanks for the suggested frame layout, which I shall use, but with the addition of some FPL levers (next to the relevant point, presumably?), just so I can paint some blue for variety, although goodness knows what colour those would have really been on a remote and independent NG branch back in the 19th Century! If the distant signals were red, presumably the levers were too, so they can represent either - I won't be making signals, so it doesn't matter! I do have some Cambrian L&B signal parts though, which might form part of a rusty heap next to the box...
Thanks again,
Andrew.
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Cheers Andrew. I was encouraged to have a first go at building a building by some of your earlier stuff, so thank you. And yes, I’ve splashed out on authentic SR colours.
The ‘1/24 scale finials’ come from ‘sanddmodels.co.uk’ at £1.50 for a pair. I’ll have to get some more...
The ‘1/24 scale finials’ come from ‘sanddmodels.co.uk’ at £1.50 for a pair. I’ll have to get some more...
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Use ‘cat colours’ as a search term in Google and you will find out more than you ever wanted to know about the genetics of cat coat colours and patterns.
All domestic cats are technically tabby underneath and that’s the most common coat for moggies, but not the easiest to paint I'd think. My Aurora is a calico (ginger and grey tabby patches on white), very striking, but also not easy to paint.
Graeme
- Soar Valley Light
- Driver
- Posts: 1451
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
- Location: North West Leicestershire
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Hello Rod,
I suspect the stove you were after was a Romesse. They were very common domestic and industrial appliances ranging in size from something that could be used in the house right up to the sort of thing that ought to have had a mechanical stoker! As I understand it, they went out of production between 15 and 20 years ago. The reason I heard was that the patterns were destroyed in an arson attack. They turn up quite often on second hand sites but the prices asked for them can be eye watering - and way over the odds in my view. Have a look on ebay and you'll see what I mean - but brace yourself for a shock!
All the best,
Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
- Soar Valley Light
- Driver
- Posts: 1451
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
- Location: North West Leicestershire
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
HI Andrew.Andrew wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:49 am
Your comments on looking for material on WHR/NWNGR signalling prompted me to dig through the olline archive of the excellent WH Heritage Group Journal, and I found an excellent article on the history of the layout at Waenfawr: https://www.welshhighlandheritage.co.uk ... -No-50.pdf
It's a bit technical for me, but seems a fascinating set up... It seems that it didn't have starters (because of trailable loop points), but did have (red) distants and ended up with FPLs - which were worked from the box even though the points weren't, which seems odd to me? And I hadn't realised that the signals were taken out of use long before WHR days, when the NWNGR gained its Light Railway Order in 1906, although it seems they weren't actually felled until the WHR takeover.
Thanks for the suggested frame layout, which I shall use, but with the addition of some FPL levers (next to the relevant point, presumably?), just so I can paint some blue for variety, although goodness knows what colour those would have really been on a remote and independent NG branch back in the 19th Century! If the distant signals were red, presumably the levers were too, so they can represent either - I won't be making signals, so it doesn't matter! I do have some Cambrian L&B signal parts though, which might form part of a rusty heap next to the box...
This just proves the point that whatever anyone thinks about signalling, someone else will have more knowledge/a different opinion. I was quite surprised at some of the details in the article. I shall re-read it when I have a moment, it's really informative. I'm not convinced the author wasn't tying himself in knots at some points!
There is a suggestion that the loop points were worked from a lever but trailable, that's unusual in rod works points (but technically possible) but would, IMHO, have added cost! Weighted points would have been cheaper and would also have needed the bolt to prevent any risk of them 'kicking' under a passing train.
Distant signal levers were green before they were yellow, a change which occurred with the change to the colour of the blades on the signals. It goes back to the days when green was the colour of caution and white was all clear. There was a Railway Clearing House convention for lever colours, most companies followed it but that doesn't guarantee that ALL companies did so - especially in the darker corners of the empire like North Wales!
This forum never fails to be fascinating!
All the best,
Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Thanks Andrew, interesting stuff...
I hadn't realised that trailable points and weighted ones were different, maybe the author didn't either? And green levers sound great - really, all I'm after is a reason to have as many different coloured levers as possible without compromising too much on realism!
The lever frame's done now - it took a while! I think it's maybe a little large, but not to worry - I just want to create the right general impression through the window...
Anyway, here's how it looks now:
Cheers all,
Andrew.
I hadn't realised that trailable points and weighted ones were different, maybe the author didn't either? And green levers sound great - really, all I'm after is a reason to have as many different coloured levers as possible without compromising too much on realism!
The lever frame's done now - it took a while! I think it's maybe a little large, but not to worry - I just want to create the right general impression through the window...
Anyway, here's how it looks now:
Cheers all,
Andrew.
- tom_tom_go
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Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
What does the writing in pencil on the wall say in the second picture?
The planking looks great.
The planking looks great.
- Peter Butler
- Driver
- Posts: 5245
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
- Location: West Wales
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
It says,..... 'If you can read this the knees of your trousers will be dirty'tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:26 pm What does the writing in pencil on the wall say in the second picture?
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
The view through those windows will look fantastic when its all painted Andrew, you should be well pleased.
Grant.
Grant.
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
My guess is "signal box back"tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:26 pm What does the writing in pencil on the wall say in the second picture?
It sure does.....
Rik
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Thanks chaps, much appreciated!
Peter, prosaic as it sounds, I'm afraid Rik's correctly identified the writing on the wall - "signal box back". I'm very impressed you could read it from the photo Rik, I had to check on the real thing!
Glad you like the planking effect too - although, since scouring the internet for lever frame pictures I've discovered that in most signal boxes it seems to be vertical!
I won't get much done this weekend, but progress will slow now anyway as I await better weather for painting...
Cheers,
Andrew.
Peter, prosaic as it sounds, I'm afraid Rik's correctly identified the writing on the wall - "signal box back". I'm very impressed you could read it from the photo Rik, I had to check on the real thing!
Glad you like the planking effect too - although, since scouring the internet for lever frame pictures I've discovered that in most signal boxes it seems to be vertical!
I won't get much done this weekend, but progress will slow now anyway as I await better weather for painting...
Cheers,
Andrew.
- Soar Valley Light
- Driver
- Posts: 1451
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:18 pm
- Location: North West Leicestershire
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
And WOW, you've certainly done that. It looks fantastic Andrew. I don't think the frame is too large at all, its perfectly proportioned to the signal box in my view. well done on a fantastic piece of work.
All the best,
Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"
Re: (WH)WHR Buildings
Hello!
Nothing much to report on the signal box (apart from a door knob - hold the front page!), but I've used various leftover bits and bobs to create this little shed:
Not sure what it's for or where it will go, but it's rather fun, as my Grandma would have said. It was designed to use the roof of the bird feeder I mentioned a page or two ago, but I forgot to take the thickness of the cladding into account, so it didn't fit. Luckily I had some slate effect roofing left over from the 'box, so I used that instead. The hut has now joined the filling and painting queue - the weather's slowly improving I think, shouldn't be too long now...
Cheers,
Andrew.
Nothing much to report on the signal box (apart from a door knob - hold the front page!), but I've used various leftover bits and bobs to create this little shed:
Not sure what it's for or where it will go, but it's rather fun, as my Grandma would have said. It was designed to use the roof of the bird feeder I mentioned a page or two ago, but I forgot to take the thickness of the cladding into account, so it didn't fit. Luckily I had some slate effect roofing left over from the 'box, so I used that instead. The hut has now joined the filling and painting queue - the weather's slowly improving I think, shouldn't be too long now...
Cheers,
Andrew.
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