Cannot renew my 16mmngm membership

[sstjc]

As for the present Association management, the less said the better.

As a current member of the board, I take offence to that statement and invite you to do better.

Lets not be too precious here Lawrence. We all know the reason the membership renewals were outsourced. Its simply because its too big a job for one person in the form it was being done and no one came forward to take it on. BUT... and its a ****** BIG BUT... that does not mean that whatever solution is chosen by the board is the right and best solution.

Warners have been woefully inadequate in the discharge of the job particularly with regard to email support and even in the case of my renewal which went wrong when I didn't receive a receipt or confirmation that the money I had paid and my membership for some time I eventually received an email but no proper invoice which I am entitled too.

Blaming Warners is all well and good and I appreciate the work Alan Regan has had to put in to support these problems however what people see is that the solution chosen by the board is one that is alienating some members, turning some away from renewing and causing a lot of frustration for those that do persevere through to renewal... and has removed the preferred payment method of many of us which is Paypal.

The comment by Enginehouse is understandable. People are entitled to feel and vent frustration with the board. Ultimately, whatever the reasons that made an outside solution necessary, the decision about which provider of membership services to use rests with the board. This appears to be a mistake and is doing damage and losing the Association members. This is counter to the aims of the board over many years of expanding, growing and developing the Association.

The comment that you object too is born out of frustration with the current state of affairs that is clearly damaging the Association and the reputation of the Association.

Perhaps the membership are unsupportive and unwilling for whatever reason, good or bad, but that does not excuse a poor or bad decision by the board.

The Board have done a lot of good things over the years but whether you like it or not that does not mean that every decision they make is right or correct. This one is proving to be damaging to the Association and if you don't believe me then please re-read this entire topic. Volunteers or not damage is damage and we should be aiming to keep our members and not losing them.

Snotty comments like you made Lawrence do nothing to engage the membership, or prospective members, and keep them on-side !

Barry

[Busted Bricks]

Seems like some people on the 7/8ths forum have also decided not to renew or have had problems. I guess it is not a big deal to the association if they lose a couple of hundred members?

I know it is a lot of effort to manage memberships once you reach a certain size. Perhaps it would have made sense to ask if any member was interested in managing renewals against payment before outsourcing it?

[-steves-]

Two ruddy good posts above which I whole heartedly agree with

And I had NO confirmation that my DD had been set up from Warners, NO confirmation I had rejoined, NO confirmation over the phone a couple of weeks later that I had rejoined but at least with online banking its easy enough to check (once its eventually been set up), BUT, I shouldn't have to, thats the point!!!

No matter what the board think, outsourcing to Warners was a crap idea, even if if only effected a hand full of members. Take that from a member who was stuffed off enough to leave the association purely over this amount of hassle to pay such a trivial amount! (in the grand scheme of things we pay out these days)

[sstjc]

Busted Bricks
It may not be a big deal to the Association or the Board to lose a couple of hundred members but it is a bloody big deal to me as a member.

Nobody should be or feel excluded.
Barry

[sstjc]

By the way BB have you got a link to this "Seems like some people on the 7/8ths forum"

For reasons I won't bore you with I haven't been able to login to the 7/8ths forum for some time so have just signed up again under a different name and email address to see if that works. Awaiting to be approved.....
Barry

[Busted Bricks]

http://www.7-8ths.info/index.php?topic=16686313.0

You have to be logged in to see the post (a new measure due to too much spam).

[-steves-]

http://www.7-8ths.info/index.php?topic=16686313.0

You have to be logged in to see the post (a new measure due to too much spam).

An interesting read!

[stoker]

Perhaps the moaners should put themselves forward as membership secretary?

Then they could accept subs in Mongolian dollars and IOU's and sort out the mess themselves!



Myself? I have set up a DD,overseas members could send an international money order....

Mountain/molehill springs to mind.

[Busted Bricks]

Stoker, I think you missed the point here. Warners have crappy service. It worked for you, great. For some of us it doesn't and Warners just ignore people. The association seems to have made a poor choice in terms of who they selected to handle collection of membership fees.

[sstjc]

To say moaners should put themselves forward is a cop out and a very poor and cheap argument. Why haven't you put yourself forward stoker?

The truth is the Association and the job has become too big. No one will take it on because you are effectively taking on a business with many people with high expectations.

The board had to do something. I acknowledge that. But they have chosen wrong. There was no consultation with the membership, the board did what they thought best after investigating the options. However the one overriding factor here is that Paypal was universally popular for online renewals, and it worked, and it has been ditched. Members of the board have made the point on the e-group that it took some while to get Paypal working properly. Well if thats true why ditch it when people have got used to it and after so much work to make Paypal run smoothly?

It seems the Board are out of touch with the membership and are allowing poor service to carry on thus bringing the Association into disrepute.

I appreciate Alan Regan has dealt with some issues but with little or no communication from the Board on what is going on its difficult for anyone to have confidence that all the issues are being dealt with. Basically no one knows what is going on and theres not even any comment on the egroup or Shed Notices.

Others like John Rogers have commented on the Association egroup that the current structure is not fit for purpose and that may well be right but one things for sure that with no effective communication how can anyone have any confidence that all DD's will be set up properly, that those that still can't renew will have a way of retaining membership, that addresses, like BBs, that don't work on the Warners system, will be sorted and that those who have become so disenchanted over this will be enticed back.

As I said before the aims of the Board have been to develop and expand the Association and now with little or no communication and people left seemingly without membership it seems the Board are happy to lose ten's if not hundreds of members as collateral damage.

If this is now accepted practice I see little future for the Association as it stands. To lose members is a disgrace but to pay a company for making it impossible, seemingly without resolution, to renew membership is gross negligence at best.

I feel very disillusioned and feel its little wonder many have decided not to bother renewing.

I now wish I hadn't bothered.

After so many years of effort and development this seems such an appalling waste.

Barry

[stoker]

Barry,calm down,dear!



I've been a member only a few weeks and am still very much a newbie,perhaps that's why I see things from a fresh POV.

I lack the skills to take on a board role,but I know enough not to make personal attacks against those that give up their time for my enjoyment!

At the very least,give Warners 12 months to settle to the role,then if we are still not happy bunnies the board will be in a better position to deal with them.

[sstjc]

So we should all just sit back for 12 months while people are prevented or discouraged from being members.

Sounds like a case of I'm all right jack, sod every one else to me.

Barry
Ps who can do without condescending stupid comments thankyou.

[Busted Bricks]

I haven't seen any personal attacks from Barry so I'm not sure what Stoker is on about.

I have contacted Warners for an update but no response.

I'm the only one on the Faroe Islands who dabbles in this hobby so it has been great to receive SMT and the Bulletin to see what people in the hobby are up to. I will miss being a member. Luckily there is this great forum and the various Facebook groups.

[Peter Butler]

What a complete and utter cock-up this whole affair has proved to be.... not only is the Association in danger of losing members, and therefore finance, it is also being charged for the 'Service'.
On top of that, this Forum is in serious danger of being split apart by opposing factions of doubters and supporters.
I have no solution to this disaster but think the contract with Warners needs to be scrutinised very closely and a charge against their total incompetence be made to recompense the Association for the financial damage they have caused.
Good will amongst members is something that is hard to value but it is being tested to its limit.

[Busted Bricks]

I've been going back and forth with Warners for the past hour and their system has issues. Faroe Islands is now in there - wrongly set up as "The Faroe Islands"- but selecting country on the Billing Address page does not work. The CC payment will not be able to go through with a wrongly named country anyway as it will fail the validation check.

I work in IT and have seen my share of buggy systems. Warners' is definitely a candidate to go on that list.

It has taken them over two weeks to respond so I'm not impressed.

[sstjc]

Well I hope you are eventually able to renew. You've made a considerable contribution to the 16mm hobby and i've benefited from your designs which I feel have been very beneficial to the grass routes and those working to a budget.

I've said it before and can only repeat that Warners are not fit for purpose. I dread to think how many members the Association has lost due to this. One is too many.

It appears I may possibly now make it to Peterborough but I fear its a lost cause taking this up with the current board who have stopped communicating about this issue and appear to not care about the damage being done to the Association and the hobby.

This whole situation is nothing more than a complete disgrace.
Barry

[Busted Bricks]

After a few emails where I tried to explain the problem they stopped responding. Life is too short for this kind of crap. I spend enough time dealing with problems at work so sod Warners and the 16mmngm Assoc.

I'll miss the publications but between various forums, FB groups, Yahoo groups and Garden Rail I'm well informed about what goes on in the hobby.

[Enginehouse]

As I understand it local groups charge a fee so why can't you be a jmember of a local group and not the Association(?) and carry on with your social interaction.
Barry

This has been discussed already by our group members and probably in the light of recent events will soon be discussed again. The fee paid by group members covers the local operating expenses involved in its running. The only group benefit from the Association is the group insurance, which would/might be needed for an independent group, but is not in any case very expensive. We have a very experienced local group officers with many years of volunteering for a variety of both commercial and hobby association organisations between us. We certainly don't need any sort of umbrella group. So to sum up, a simple change of name and a TPI cover and we could attract members of all garden railway interests.

[sstjc]

Thats a very interesting take on the situation. I doubt any local group will treat its members with such cavalier disregard.

I didnt have a very good experience when I visited my local group some years ago but it is clearly very popular so I wouldn't dismiss them totally based on that but i'm beginning to feel that this may be the way to go. Local groups are likely to have more concern about retaining their members than the Association appears to be showing.

If more local groups also feel that they don't need an umbrella organisation then perhaps that is the way forward. The ME Society I belong too has proven you can punch above your weight in terms of newsletters, attendance at shows and web presence and lets face it the club that runs Exeter does a damn good job so perhaps more smaller shows round the country instead of one big show is the way to go.

Very constructive input I think.

Barry

[TonyW]

... The fee paid by group members covers the local operating expenses involved in its running ...

Other than for the Yorkshire Group (who, I believe, have a building) I didn't know that any area groups charged fees. You learn something new...

The North West Wales Area Group does not charge fees and is open to non-Association members provided they have their own insurance cover for operating steam locos. See http://www.nwwales.16mm.org.uk/about.html