Garden Railway Forum

I'd love to see those wagon frames too, always good to see how other people do it!
This is my wombot Drafter, print dimensions are 250x250x310, I actually have two of these machines but the other one is still being commissioned. I havent had a great experience with these to be quite honest and next time I'd much rather spend my money on an UP or Makerbot. Two samples of locomotives ive printed, the top one (a TGR V class) is fairly similar to a UK class 03 but with outside frames. Regards
Jake

Tropic Blunder wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:43 am I'd love to see those wagon frames too, always good to see how other people do it!

Agreed.

Actually, I'd love to know how you manage to get the surface so smooth on your prints, it's something I struggle with in a big way. Looking at the pictures of the hopper and the white loco body, they look almost perfect.

Anyway, here is a pic of my wagon underframe. Printed as the frame, plus 4 axlebox/spring assemblies separately, all the bolt heads and spreader plate are printed as part of the frame print. It wasn't until I put the first one together that I realised I had boobed by not making the buffer beam deeper, but that's easily corrected with some plasticard on these two, and a minor mod to the drawing for the future. The axle boxes on the primered version are only glued on one side, leaving the other loose so that I can remove the wheels until final assembly

I really do like the idea of using a 3D printer in this scale but the finish of printed items puts me off.

tom_tom_go wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:19 pm I really do like the idea of using a 3D printer in this scale but the finish of printed items puts me off.

So do I Tom. Same has you, the finish is somewhat of an issue with some traders I have dealt with. Don't know if it's the machine or the programs that they run.


I do like your'e frames though Phillip. Do you do commissions.....

Hi Phillip, no secrets here! the malcolm moore (4 wheel diesel) got a bit of car body filler on the top of the bonnet otherwise my trusted technique is about 6-10 coats of the cheapest primer I can find. My prints are usually printed at .2mm per layer for stuff like buffer beams, doors etc but lately I've been printing at .3 - .4mm layer height just to cut down on time due to the size of the prints (.1mm less per layer ends up being a 3 hour difference with one of the fyansford hoppers) its all about the application!

Your underframe looks fantastic! I love all the bolt and strap detail you've put into it which is something I really need to work on for my own models. What wheels are you using?

I've gotta say Rod it can be a pretty steep learning curve and a big investment using a 3d printer. It looks quite easy seeing the machine spitting parts out but what people dont see is the countless hours on inventor nutting the drawings out! If you can do some extra classes in engineering at a trade school that'll help you get the basics down and you can do some experimenting to see if it suits what you need otherwise there are companies that'll hire machines or print it for you if you can design it.

Thanks Jake. Yes I will stick with people who know what they are doing.....

I can see and understand the benefits of 3D printing, but for me it is too big an expense and learning curve as I don't have an engineering, drawing or technical background. I too have issues over the quality and durability of the finished product. Perhaps I am just being a Philistine?

Tropic Blunder wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:38 am Hi Phillip, no secrets here! the malcolm moore (4 wheel diesel) got a bit of car body filler on the top of the bonnet otherwise my trusted technique is about 6-10 coats of the cheapest primer I can find. My prints are usually printed at .2mm per layer for stuff like buffer beams, doors etc but lately I've been printing at .3 - .4mm layer height just to cut down on time due to the size of the prints (.1mm less per layer ends up being a 3 hour difference with one of the fyansford hoppers) its all about the application!

Your underframe looks fantastic! I love all the bolt and strap detail you've put into it which is something I really need to work on for my own models. What wheels are you using?

Hi Jake,
I tend to print at 0.18mm layers for pretty much everything. I know it takes longer but needs much less fettling afterwards. It's also the solution to the fine detail which you commented on - the curved strapping plates and the bolt heads are simply sticking out from the side of the frames by 1mm and at 0.18 the printer copes quite happily with a quick sideways flick as it goes past that point, no need for support. The thing to bare in mind though, is that the more surface detail you add, the harder it is to smooth the surrounding surface, especially if you are going to blast it with half a dozen layers of primer!
Part of the time problem can be solved with lower infill density, I usually set it at 20%, although on very small/ thin parts its more or less 100% anyway by the time its printed the top and bottom layers and both side walls! However 20%, or even 15%, does make a big time difference on larger items, saves on filament too!

The wheels are Swift16 with 3mm axles cut from silver steel rod from ebay.

IanC wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:45 am I too have issues over the quality and durability of the finished product. Perhaps I am just being a Philistine?

I think it's important not to think of quality in terms of, say, a 2D colour Laser Printer, unless you are a professional with a super quality machine.

It's also important to be aware that it isn't necessarily the right tool for every job. If you followed my previous ramblings, you'll know that I have tried to do everything with it, whilst I was learning, but in reality its quicker and more satisfying to build a wagon body, with strapping, etc, from scratch rather than messing about trying to draw and print fine detail.

As for durability, ABS is ABS so that shouldn't be an issue, and although I haven't felt the need to try, nylon and various other durable filaments are available, although how you stick Nylon is another question!

FWLR wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:44 am Thanks Jake. Yes I will stick with people who know what they are doing.....

Although I do have an engineering background and it was in CNC programming as well as the setting and making side of it and I have loads of time on my hands, I may consider looking at a course and see how it works....it's about X Y Z isn't it.

Our should I still buy from experienced people who have more to do with them....decisions, decisions.....

philipy wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:16 am

IanC wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:45 am I too have issues over the quality and durability of the finished product. Perhaps I am just being a Philistine?

I think it's important not to think of quality in terms of, say, a 2D colour Laser Printer, unless you are a professional with a super quality machine.

It's also important to be aware that it isn't necessarily the right tool for every job. If you followed my previous ramblings, you'll know that I have tried to do everything with it, whilst I was learning, but in reality its quicker and more satisfying to build a wagon body, with strapping, etc, from scratch rather than messing about trying to draw and print fine detail.

As for durability, ABS is ABS so that shouldn't be an issue, and although I haven't felt the need to try, nylon and various other durable filaments are available, although how you stick Nylon is another question!

Thanks Philip, I do tend to stick to what I know! I'll continue to read your posts on the subject as I do find it interesting.

philipy wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:16 am
I think it's important not to think of quality in terms of, say, a 2D colour Laser Printer, unless you are a professional with a super quality machine.

It's also important to be aware that it isn't necessarily the right tool for every job. If you followed my previous ramblings, you'll know that I have tried to do everything with it, whilst I was learning, but in reality its quicker and more satisfying to build a wagon body, with strapping, etc, from scratch rather than messing about trying to draw and print fine detail.

As for durability, ABS is ABS so that shouldn't be an issue, and although I haven't felt the need to try, nylon and various other durable filaments are available, although how you stick Nylon is another question!

This may help Phillip.

https://www.3dnatives.com/en/nylon-used ... 110420174/

Although you may already know about it. I had dealing with working with Nylon on a machine I was setting up for a company that made bicycle lights. I can tell you it was very hard wearing I know !, because we had to put it through all kinds of tests..

While I've never tried ABS I cant say I've ever had any issues with PLA durability wise. If I'm worried about a particular piece I just make the wall thickness bigger. I tend to use the printer to bulk out large pieces in a rough resolution and then add the detail parts on as separately printed items. Just like a kit really. I've ordered some XTC-3d to see if it makes the finishing process easier. Whats that in the background? A bit more of a teaser although i think at this point its fairly obvious what it is! I modified the axleboxes and the underframe and this week the first Fyansford hopper broke cover. Unfortunately I've just discovered how they tipped and so its back to the drawing board for a redesign On its first test run hauled by D1, no problems were observed so it'll return back to the workshop for fitment of doors and a paintjob ready to be accepted into traffic.

All look good Jake.
Let us know how you get on with the XTC-3d please.

Lots has been happening here but you'll have to wait a few days to hear about that!

In the meantime heres some photos from my local miniature railway. We had our last runday of the year today and in typical Melbourne fashion it absolutely bucketed (despite it being summer!) The track isnt normally surrounded by water btw thats just how bad the rain was!

2018 has been an extremely interesting year for the railway we've gone from a small loop with a handful of track powered locos to a short but operational point to point railway with five battery powered locos and a heap of Australian locos in the pipeline. Hopefully the fair rate of progress keeps going into 2019. Ryan was interesting in having a run so he came over from the other side of town and along with Alexander and Darren at one point we had 4 trains running at once!
#14 Arrives at Badger creek with a long freight train. D1 Pulls an empty ore train around the mainline leg of the Wye past the NSWGR signal box. This was a model made for HO scale that i found on thingyverse by badgerbreath, The roof is aluminium BBQ trays from bunnings cut up to scale size and corrugated using a FIskars crimper. D1 and #14 depart the mine wye on their way back down the hill. all dressed up with no where to go! For some reason the signalman has put the stick "on the green" without any train present and with the points set against the road! Mine shunter A9 prepares to push back up the triangle while D1 waits in the interchange. the evening mixed leaves Badger creek D1 returns the last wagons of the day to the top of the line.

Some brilliant photos Jake of some really great looking locos.

Looking good - I love the station building. 4 trains running at once sounds good too - in theory that's just about possible' i=n my line, but I've only ever managed two, and that was pretty hairy...

Thanks all I really appreciate it.
theres a few updates to go although I'm tipping progress will stall after tomorrow, its meant to be 42 degrees C here in Melbourne and I cant imagine myself doing much work outside despite having a trailer load of ballast to spread!

heres a few photos my father took of some of the other trains The driver of the battery electric is probably praying at this point. The twisting climb up the 1:30 is usually a fairly good test of an engines stamina. It made it to the top and somehow managed to acquire a train. Another fantastic model by Alexander this one always wins points for its portability. Steam Motor and trailer ready to depart Badger creek Under failing light the crew of the MM spur their W&W train on... Close up of the Baldwin An interesting solution to an unusual problem. the ESET's steeplecab goes for a run away from the wires.
Alexanders tramway runs 32V overhead then uses a rectifier to bring it back to a clean 12v which is then fed into Deltang RC thus with a 12V+ battery and some wire to the trolly pole...

After we finished at home we took Ryan around to see the tramway. Recently returned to service boxcab FO24 is seen here taking a freight down the hill towards grasslands. Departing from Currawong back up the hill. Back in the Depot with the tramways Lyn.

What camera did he use as those shots are brilliant quality.