Repainting Russell

MuzTrem · Post by **MuzTrem** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:37 pm

Thanks Andrew, it certainly is

laalratty · Post by **laalratty** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:36 pm

You really have thrown yourself in at the deep end with that livery, and considering you haven't done anything like this before the results are pretty astounding! I'm now thinking that perhaps it would be good to try using a lining pen.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:25 pm

Andrew:96991 wrote:
The two larger curves I drew freehand, and the smaller ones in the corners were made using a stencil - that was another add-on I purchased with the pen. I don't think it would be much use for lining directly but was good for this bit.

I take it back! I finished side 2 last night and found the stencil to be absolutely great for making a neat job of tricky curves. I just needed to use blu-tack to lift it up a little and stop the paint bleeding underneath. The various curves in the stencil seem to get larger in 1mm increments which worked well for the thin cream lines either side of the thicker black one - which is 1mm thick, perfect! Photos to follow, possibly when I've sorted the satin black tank tops etc.

All the best,

Andrew.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:46 am

Hello again,

I've been able to make a little more progress on this and have now completed the lining, sprayed the tank-tops etc satin black, and painted the inside of the cab. That took 4 coats of cream o get a good finish, and then I decided it all looked to neat and dirtied it up anyway...

Sorry, not a great photo, I'll take some outside when it's finished...

There are a few things I'm pondering before undertaking the next steps. Any thoughts or advice on any of the following would be most welcome!

1) Boiler bands - to paint, or not to paint? And, if I do, orange/black/orange, or cream/black/cream? I'm currently thinking yes and orange...

2) Cab roof - matt (BBQ) black to match the smokebox, or satin to match the tank tops?

3) After making a few alterations the previous owner brush-painted both smokebox and bufferbeams in gloss. I want a smoother and (in the case of the smokebox) more matt finish so intend to respray. But how should I tackle the issue of the old finish? Chemical stripping? Light sanding?

4) I need to drill some holes in the tank undersides and front running plate to attach a representation of the brake pipe. My previous attempt to drill into brass (Bertie's running plate) resulted in the drill skittering about all over the place before going blunt, so I gave up! I'm guessing there's a better method?!

Any help will be very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Andrew.

kandnwlr · Post by **kandnwlr** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:57 am

Thanks, this has been useful And encouraging. I´ve got to do the skirts of my Swift Sixteen tram in the next couple of weeks.

LMS-Jools · Post by **LMS-Jools** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:31 pm

Ace

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:29 pm

Personally I think I would go with a light sanding rather than chemical stripping. If the original pain holds on OK through the sanding process it will make a good primer for the finishing coat. As long as the paints are compatible, that is!

TTHLRMatt · Post by **TTHLRMatt** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:51 pm

I would go for the chemical stripping as, no matter how light you rub it, you can rub away the rivet detail ect. I did it to my friends Caradoc and it worked well but I lost a lot of the light rivet detail to get the bad paint off.

laalratty · Post by **laalratty** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:27 pm

Try a light sanding first, it shouldn't take off the rivet detailing given how chunky it is on R/H locos. Smokeboxes don't have the best finish anyway.
Boiler bands, yes definitely paint them, and in my experience they have the "outside" lining scheme, so that would be black and orange for your loco.
Cab roof, personally I'd go for satin over matt.

DLRdan · Post by **DLRdan** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:37 pm

When drilling you need to make a small dent where you want the hole to be. This gives the drill a starting points and prevents it from wandering. If you haven't got a proper centre punch then a large nail ground to a pencil like point should do the trick.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:14 am

Andrew:97467 wrote: 1) Boiler bands - to paint, or not to paint?

Painted bands, either boiler colour, or lined, were more common.

Some railways in the English speaking world used brass boiler bands though. The QR (known to non-Queenslanders as the quaint and rattly) used brass boiler bands and domes on passenger locos until the end of steam in the '60s. They weren't highly polished, but were visibly brass colour.

Andrew:97467 wrote: 2) Cab roof - matt (BBQ) black to match the smokebox, or satin to match the tank tops?

I doubt any working railway bothered cleaning loco roofs, anymore than they bothered cleaning carriage roofs. I paint mine matt black with a bit of brown in it.

Andrew:97467 wrote: 3) After making a few alterations the previous owner brush-painted both smokebox and bufferbeams in gloss. I want a smoother and (in the case of the smokebox) more matt finish so intend to respray. But how should I tackle the issue of the old finish? Chemical stripping? Light sanding?

Depends on what paint he used. Roundhouse paint is a two part acrylic and proof against anything but industrial heavy duty paint strippers. If it was overpainted with enamel (eg. Humbrol) just strip it off with oven cleaner. If it was some sort of acrylic, they are a bit harder to strip off with oven cleaner, but a solvent like MEK, or Acetone should lift it and not affect the Roundhouse paint. As always test first in an inconspicuous place if you decide to strip it.

If the brush painting is smooth and in good condition, just roughen it with a glass fibre brush. Unlike abrasive papers, it won't remove the detail, although it may polish the rivet heads. A decent hobby shop should stock them.

Also make sure whatever paint you use won't attack the brushed on layer.

Andrew:97467 wrote: 4) I need to drill some holes in the tank undersides and front running plate to attach a representation of the brake pipe. My previous attempt to drill into brass (Bertie's running plate) resulted in the drill skittering about all over the place before going blunt, so I gave up! I'm guessing there's a better method?!

Yes there are better methods.

Spotting drills are short and designed to start without wandering around, like ordinary jobbing drills do. Not easy to find, but industrial tooling suppliers have them. The smallest size available is 3mm I think, but they can be used to make a starting spot for a smaller drill.

For drilling holes in something like a side tank, footplate assembly, I mark out the hole position and use a carbide scriber to make a small centre pop by wiggling the punch around a bit. This will be enough to start a 0.5mm drill held in a pin chuck and the 0.5mm hole will then guide the point of the correct size drill.

Centre punches are the usual way to mark out centre pops for drilling. Buy one, they don't cost much and you'll use it a lot if you do any metal work. When you use it, make sure the part being marked is well supported by a block of wood or metal, or you will put a dent in the brass, which will be hard to get out.

Don't be tempted by an automatic centre punch, you'll find people that swear by them, but they are an invention of the devil and pretty useless on something like an assembled loco body. They have a bad habit of bouncing and putting the centre pop in the wrong place, or making two marks.

Graeme

MuzTrem · Post by **MuzTrem** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:36 pm

Andrew:97467 wrote:1) Boiler bands - to paint, or not to paint? And, if I do, orange/black/orange, or cream/black/cream? I'm currently thinking yes and orange...

I can think of at least one example of unpainted boiler bands, and quite close to home for Russell:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/muztrem/12 ... 6022241253

However, it must be said I have found it almost impossible to find a photo of the real Russell before her overhaul that gives a clear view of the boiler bands, but it seems that they were painted!

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:20 pm

Many thanks for all your thoughts folks, I'm very grateful - I think you've told me everything I need to know so I'll crack on again. Well, crawl on, the good weather's had me outside railway-building this weekend, and next week's looking busy too... I'll let you know how it goes though.

Thanks again,

Andrew.

PS Yes, I thought of the NGG16s' bolier bands too, briefly wondered about leaving them unpainted as a kind of tribute to modern-day WHR motive power. Talking of which I note that the real Russell's relaunch has been delayed - mine may beat it back into service!

JMORG · Post by **JMORG** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:36 pm

Paint the boiler bands!
Also, check out Locoworks if you want any "Russell" mods, such as the Sandpot and bufferbeams

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:44 pm

JMORG:97668 wrote:Paint the boiler bands!
Also, check out Locoworks if you want any "Russell" mods, such as the Sandpot and bufferbeams

Yep, will do on the boiler bands!

Have purchased the Locoworks tanks inners (yet to be fitted), but the bufferbeams and sandpot both date from an earlier era in Russell's history, the one being recreated in the real thing's current rebuild. I'm going for c'23, in the brief period during which the loco was vacuum braked but not cut down.

Purchased myself a glass fibre brush and some fine sandpaper today to start preparing the bufferbeams and smokbox for repainting...

Andrew.

laalratty · Post by **laalratty** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:00 pm

Did not realise Locoworks were bringing out a sandpot for the Russell, will have to get myself one of them.

JMORG · Post by **JMORG** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:26 pm

Ah I see!
I guess you will be sticking the wooden box on the front?

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:16 am

JMORG:97706 wrote:Ah I see!
I guess you will be sticking the wooden box on the front?

Yes, I think so, might try to make it hinged. The other means of carrying sand seems to have been a cylindrical container, possibly cut down from an oil drum and very ugly. So it'll be the wooden one!

Andrew.

MDLR · Post by **MDLR** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:52 pm

Talk to Jurassic Models: they do a little laser-cut kit for one, and it's perfectly possible to fit doll's house hinges to it, providing you do it before you take the bits out of the fret.

http://www.mdlr.co.uk/toolbox.html

kandnwlr · Post by **kandnwlr** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:27 pm

MDLR:97741 wrote:Talk to Jurassic Models: they do a little laser-cut kit for one, and it's perfectly possible to fit doll's house hinges to it, providing you do it before you take the bits out of the fret.

http://www.mdlr.co.uk/toolbox.html

Gotta see a pic of this when it´s done

I can think of a number of places to fit some of them ....

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