Help with carriage painting.

[Steamcoaster]

Hi

I'm in Western Australia. I can't find sanding sealer anywhere. The best I can get is dope ( for balsa wood models). If you add talc to it it can be used as a filler.

All I'm trying to do is lay the grain flat on an IP Engineering carriage kit before painting but without losing the detail. I'm only going to get one shot at this.

I'm building a Gladstone car and Ashbury Summer coach.

Any tips?

Going to scratch build after these two cars as there is a good supply of ply and strip wood. Probably a Pickering brake.

Cheers

Rupert

[robc_wa]

Ah yes, sometimes it is difficult to find stuff you took for granted in the UK!
I have been here 30 years and still find myself caught out sometimes.
If you prefer a less aromatic solution than dope, then try using a dilute solution of PVA glue. Although you only get one shot on the carriage itself, most IP models seem to have quite a bit of spare ply on the"frets" - test on a piece of this first.

Regards

Rob

As an OT aside: I had a great aunt who appplied dope to full size airplanes in WW1. She was still pretty happy in the 60's!. I suppose they use less interesting solvents now!

[Steamcoaster]

Thanks

[GTB]

I'm in Western Australia. I can't find sanding sealer anywhere. The best I can get is dope ( for balsa wood models). If you add talc to it it can be used as a filler.

All I'm trying to do is lay the grain flat on an IP Engineering carriage kit before painting but without losing the detail.

Here in East Oz, I buy mine from the paint section in the local Mitre 10. Made by Wattyl and it comes in a 500ml tin. I'd be surprised if Bunnings and Home don't also stock it.

I decant it into a small bottle for use, otherwise most of the contents of the tin will gel and go off before I can use it.

Another alternative is shellac. My local Mitre 10 still stocks that as well, both in flake form, or already made up in metho. The made up version is labelled brown polish, just to confuse the issue...........

I find the ply used by IP requires three coats of sanding sealer, with sanding between coats, to get a smooth surface.

Graeme

[Steamcoaster]

Hi

Thanks for this. I was trying to find sanding sealer. It's like cellulose dope but with very fine filler in. All I can get here is dope.

I'll look again in bunnings now I know what look for.

I have made a wagon and painted straight on the wood. 3 Coates and sanding and the finish is OK for a Waggon.

I'm going to get some strip wood and ply and have a go at scratch building.

Thanks for your help.

[Keith S]

I'm amazed that you can find model aeroplane dope but not sanding sealer. I haven't seen dope anywhere in Canada fr a long time. When I was a lad of course you could get both butyrate and nitrate dope at any hobby store.

I seem to recall reading the label on a tin of sealer, that all that was really in there was some highly thinned clear varnish and some "mineral solids". I imagine thinning and mixing some varnish with talc would work quite well. Maybe some experimenting is in order.

As an aside, I built that Gladstone car kit. I rather enjoyed it. The little slatted seats take some time. I decorated the enclosed section by covering the seats and making little curtains. I'm quite pleased with how it turned out.

[GTB]

I don't use the green shed, as I have to drive past the blue shed to get there.........

Not sure if Bunnies sell Wattyl, they may stock Feast Watson brand sanding sealer instead, which I've not tried.

Graeme

[Steamcoaster]

I have found something called Mr Surfacer.

It sounds like it's the sort of stuff I might be after. It sounds lacquer based. I could not find any reference to it being used on plywood.

Any experience?

[GTB]

I have found something called Mr Surfacer.

It's basically a spray putty for filling nicks and scratches, like the ones used for automotive refinishing, but finer, although it is claimed to be brushable as well as sprayed. Not something I've ever used on wood.

Looking on the net, there are a dozen or so Solver Paint Shops scattered over the suburbs of Perth. I think Wattyl took over Solver a while ago, but anyway, the Solver website lists a sanding sealer for timber.......

Graeme

[Steamcoaster]

OK. I went to Bunnings (think B&Q). Apart from a good stock of banned materials, they had Feast & Watson sanding sealer. 500ml was more than I needed. Good stuff though. Turps based. After it dried I sanded the surface. Looks like its done the job.

Will let you know the result.

Found a good source of:

Acetone
Isopropanol
Meths
Proper turps
Cellulose thinners
West system epoxy
Two pack paint and varnishG

[Andrew]

Hi Steamcoaster!

Glad you found the sealer, I reckon it should make a big difference - otherwise the grain will continue across the matchboarding and give the game away. It certainly worked for my Pickering brake which had a big swirly pattern from end to end until I sealed and primed it. Good luck with the painting.

All the best,

Andrew.

[Steamcoaster]

I tried the sealer. Reasonable success, but getting rid of the horizontal grain on what is supposed to be vertical match boarding is difficult.

I have had to open the lines up in the match boarding with a knife to avoid losing the relief. I slipped with the knife a couple of times too.

I think I can only get the right finish by scratch building, but will press on. I am hoping additional coats of paint and sanding between will help.

I'll try and post a picture .

[Andrew]

Hello again,

You may well be right about the extra painting and sanding. On my Pickering brake the big swirly patterns in the grain were still very noticeable until I primed and sanded - after that you couldn't see them at all, just the odd tiny grain marking that I like because it shows that the thing's made of real wood. I guess it will depend on whether the grain pattern you're trying to remove is flush with the surrounding wood or raised/indented.

I'm building an old IMP Gladstone Car kit at the minute and decided to replace the lower panels (which came in several parts designed to be joined and then scribed) with thinner ones to which I'm adding individual matchboarding in lime strip. I like the effect, but it also has its pitfalls - if you look closely at my WHR buffet car from the wrong angle you can see bare wood between some of the boards where the paint didn't make it in between. On the FR brake I've just finished my first top coat was a thinned down one which I worked into all the gaps using an old brush and a painting technique reminiscent of that used by toddlers... Subsequent ones were more carefully applied!

On the subject of the Gladstone Car, I'd be grateful if anyone knows whether the outer balcony ends should be glazed. The IMP kit thinks so, but last time I travelled on the real thing, 2 years ago, I think I recall the balcony ends being open. Pictures are inconclusive, particularly the ones from the 20s era I'm modelling, it's very hard to tell. What does the IP kit have?

All the best,

Andrew.

[Steamcoaster]

I think the ends of the GC are unglazed. That is certainly how the restored one is now.

I thought there was a good picture in Boyds book. I recall it having glazed ends. My books are in a sea container in Freemantle docks.

Given the Welsh weather, a practical solution is canvas sides which drop down and glazed ends.

Cheers