bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Keith S » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:13 pm

Those "Riverdale" boilers don't have feed pumps. Apparently designed to carry enough water to last until fuel exhaustion. I wonder if the design takes into account that the fire will die when the blower stops. I've seen them running at expositions in public, so must be insurable at least under the 16mm association guidelines.

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Yes, just been through Riverdale webpage.
The arguments (with which I totally agree) against the use of axle pump are very well explained by Brian Wilson in this August 2014 article in "16mm Today" magazine:
https://www.riverdale-loco.com/Today.pdf

So I guess, you are right - it is acceptable to the insurers etc.
Makes a mockery though of the boiler code we are supposed to adhere to? :scratch:

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by TonyW » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:51 pm

bambuko wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:36 pmThe arguments (with which I totally agree) against the use of axle pump are very well explained by Brian Wilson in this August 2014 article in "16mm Today" magazine:
https://www.riverdale-loco.com/Today.pdf
I'd forgotten about that article, so thanks for posting the link. I have a Shawe Steam Services / Roundhouse "Jack" which has an axle pump. I must be doing it all wrong.
bambuko wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:36 pmSo I guess, you are right - it is acceptable to the insurers etc.
Makes a mockery though of the boiler code we are supposed to adhere to? :scratch:
For clarity, to which boiler code are you referring?
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:06 pm

TonyW wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:51 pm ...For clarity, to which boiler code are you referring?

in UK - The Boiler Test Code 2018:
6.5
Boiler water feed arrangements shall be by at least two independent means
(two of each, or a combination of, hand pump, injector, mechanical pump, etc.).
A single boiler inlet with two check valves is acceptable.
later edit:
Correction - above is from Volume 1 (for boilers above 3 bar litres), so it doesn't seem to apply to "our" boilers, which are covered by Volume 2.
The only reference to boiler water feed in Volume 2 is as follows:
The boiler may also be fitted with a water level gauge and a mechanical means of pumping water into the boiler whilst under working pressure. If no means of supplying water to the boiler whilst working is present, the fuel supply shall be so arranged that it is used up before the water is exhausted.
So it seems that it is all optional? :D



in Australia - AMBSC Code Part 3:
2.5.3
The boiler shall have at least two feedwater systems one of which shall be an
axle pump or other device that will maintain water level while the engine is in operation.
later edit:
This one definitely applies, regardless of size of the boiler (AFAIK)

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:58 pm

“in Australia - AMBSC Code Part 3:
2.5.3
The boiler shall have at least two feedwater systems one of which shall be an
axle pump or other device that will maintain water level while the engine is in operation.
later edit:
This one definitely applies, regardless of size of the boiler (AFAIK)”


You may be looking at the incorrect document, are you referring to sub miniature boilers
AMBSC Code part 3
Issue 2.00 -2017
Sub- Miniature Boilers.

(which is the latest one that I know of)

There is no mention of 2.5.3, it actually does not exist in the document I have. (last listing in section 2 is 2.3.14)
There is no mention of feed water systems at all in the document. I have not seen many meth fired pot boilers with hand, axle pumps or injectors.

I will also add that as an engineering document it is has many problems. One example, there is no reference to boiler barrel wall thickness. It has been reported by others that the process of creating the current AMBSC sub miniature boiler code was fraught with problems, even contempt for the smaller scales and submissions by those who work in the smaller scales, so there are moves to create a new separate code for sub miniature boilers.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:41 pm

I am referring to the same document, but I haven't got the latest version (mine is 2006), so it might be that it has changed...
Section 2.5 (in 2006 version) is Coal Fired Boilers

Yes, I am aware about the moves to create separate code.

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:26 pm

Trailing pony truck.
The combined truck bearing/gas burner holder:

Image

Outside fames with bearing pad:

Image

And the same from below, with wheels, axleboxes and springs:

Image

Image

Pony truck assembled and ready for fitting to the loco:

Image

Detail of axlebox:

Image

Pony truck secured to the loco:

Image

On the rails:

Image

and that is prototype ve model:

Image

The springing is very light, just enough to keep trailing pony wheels in reliable contact with rails, without affecting main wheels.
Tested on some dodgy track and delighted with the way it works :thumbright:

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:37 pm

Very elegant!

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:15 pm

Thank you ttg

btw - more updates from the restoration of full size Fowler at Steam Workshop :


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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:25 pm

Marvelous stuff with the truck. Keep the photos coming !!!
and the video is interesting. I would have invested in a needle gun to clean up the wheels etc.
I know the feeling of tube grinding in the fire box.

Image
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:20 am

Thank you Dazza!
Any praise coming from you, is particularly nice indeed :thumbright:
It would have been great to have mouldings from Mike in NZ for both pony truck frame and axleboxes.
Maybe next time...
For now it is just rough, coarse representation of swing link truck in the prototype, but it will do (especially from 10ft away :mrgreen: ).
Main thing is, that functionally it promises to work OK.

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by FWLR » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:05 am

Well I for one think you've done a really superb job. It just looks so professionally done. You should be really happy with how well you have done with what could and can be a real pain to get right.

You have in abundance...

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:15 am

:D
It took two attempts to get pony truck frame right ...
and the second time I put (almost) as much time into making a fixture that held everything for silver soldering as I did into making the bits for the frame :thumbup:

but I got it right in the end - if you look closely at the photos you will see even solder lines at 0.15mm :king: all around.

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu May 07, 2020 5:26 pm

Next update is about cranks.
First a "test run" to make sure everything works as planned :thumbright:
I have spare axle with wheel from when I was making them, so will use this and one test crank to check some of my ideas.

Each crank starts as a rectangle of steel, with holes drilled and reamed (using DRO means everything should be quite accurate):

Image

Next the crank start taking shape:

Image

Balance weight are angled at 20deg, so simple fixture makes sure they will look OK:

Image

Round face of balance weight is turned on the lathe, using simple mini faceplate:

Image

It even has little "dog" to push crank round - when I first tried without it, just using centre screw and relying on friction, things went pear shaped :mrgreen:

and.. finally little buttons and bit of filing to round the crank.

Image

Didn't have silver steel to make them hardened, but regular mild steel was just fine for one off (silver steel on order)

That's it for today. Next... crankpins and loctiting and pinning it all in place.
Which leads me to a question:
In Brian Wilson's book both crankpin and axle are pinned to the crank (page 22).
Axle bit makes perfect sense, but why pin crankpin? - it's not as if it is going to twist itself off (unlike possibly axle/crank joint).

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Thu May 07, 2020 10:23 pm

For what it is worth, I made the driving crank pin from silver steel (or was it an off cut of a 1/8" HSS drill shank?) as it was pressed on and did not need any threads. The eccentric crank will be cross pinned using 1.00mm HSS drill shanks, this is yet to be done after test steaming. The rest of the pins I made as per BW book and I case hardened the threaded pins with "Cherry Red" , which seems to work well. Not sure how deep the case hardening goes but a file skids over it. I used PB for the rod bushes. I cannot see why you would cross pin the crank pins to the cranks. I could not find where B. W mentions this in the book ??
I made the Quartering jig as like in the book and added lock nuts to the centre screws to enure they did not wobble about and also wooden wedges to ensure positive engagement of the pins to the jig. I felt this was very worth the effort.


Image

Image
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Fri May 08, 2020 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Fri May 08, 2020 8:05 am

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:23 pm ... I cannot see why you would cross pin the crank pins to the cranks. I could not find where B. W mentions this in the book ??...
There it is (scanned from the book):

Image

I guess it's another poetic licence by the illustrator and book's ghost writer :mrgreen:
I have every intention of ignoring it, but thought I'd do sanity check here, just in case I've missed something.
I suppose someone will tell me that I am "overthinking it" but that's fine :thumbup:

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Fri May 08, 2020 10:45 pm

bambuko wrote: Fri May 08, 2020 8:05 am
Hydrostatic Dazza wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 10:23 pm ... I cannot see why you would cross pin the crank pins to the cranks. I could not find where B. W mentions this in the book ??...
There it is (scanned from the book):

Image

I guess it's another poetic licence by the illustrator and book's ghost writer :mrgreen:
I have every intention of ignoring it, but thought I'd do sanity check here, just in case I've missed something.
I suppose someone will tell me that I am "overthinking it" but that's fine :thumbup:

I found it now. Blind in one eye and I cannot see out the other.
Roll pins = ERRR Yukk in my thinking. If you have to cross drill and pin a driving crank pin then something went wrong. 0.01mm interference would be fine, but put a little step on the pin. The next time I will do it I will make the pin over length, with a size to size fit to the hole to the excess length and thus the pin is lined up nicely as it is pressed in. 0.010 will make a nice interference fit and will be lined up but the excess lead it part. A drop of Loctite but it should be a waste of time as it will be wiped off if the interference is correct. After the excess is cut off, Dremel cut off wheel and diamond file to finish it off. I think one of my pins went a wee bit off, annoying but noticeable minor tight spot, so next time I will have the lead in portion to be cut off after.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Old Man Aaron » Sun May 10, 2020 2:14 am

Simply stunning work here. Having worked on full-size Fowlers and other canefield kettles, it's nice to see their construction scaled down like this. Certainly well beyond what I could manage, I'll stick with assembling Roundhouse bits on frames cut from an old road sign!
Regards,
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Sun May 10, 2020 8:36 am

Thank you for your very kind (and generous :D ) comments Old Man Aaron :thumbright:
I enjoyed your blog, in particular this post:
https://anzaccreekworkshops.blogspot.co ... owler.html

Whilst it is different prototype to my loco, family resemblance, many identical components etc make it very useful for my project :thumbright: - thank you.

I only have one, half decent photo of my protoype (https://www.angrms.org.au/cpages/airdmill.pdf) as shown in an earlier post in this thread.

Apparently it is in storage at Woodford?
I would greatly appreciate any more info (and possibly photos? ... when you are next at Woodford :thumbup: ).

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Old Man Aaron » Sun May 10, 2020 12:22 pm

Happy to hear you're getting something out of the blog. It usually functions merely as a backup for my failing memory. :roll:


Aye, Airdmillan is up the front of our storage compound. Like most things at Woodford, it looks worse than it really is, but we'll likely never get around to doing anything with it, due to having too large a collection and an extreme shortage of active hands. No shortage of armchair enthusiasts whinging about it all slowly returning to the earth, though.. :scratch: :roll:
Here's the only shot I have of the loco. Ironically, I took loads of photos of it for a mate of mine last year, whom decided to build a static model, and needed reference material. Sorry to tell you I no longer have them, as I don't need the photos myself, and am running out of hard drive space. There's too many photos for him to email me any useful number of them, and what with this plague about, I can't visit him to get copies. For the same reason, (among others) I won't be getting to Woodford any time soon..

Quite sorry about that - normally, I'd be in much better a position to help.
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I do however have a few shots of our flagship, Bundaberg Fowler No.5, taken when it's drivers were returned from re-machining back in September. Being a virtually-identical copy of Airdmillan, I hope these photos might be of some use to you.
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Regards,
Aaron - Scum Class Works

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