bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:21 pm

Yes indeed ttg,
but CAD is cruel mistress as well - it doesn't tolerate "near enough" ;)
What is taking all this time, is that I am not "modelling" in CAD, I am designing in "CAD",
so... if there was an existing design on paper, it would take no time to create the model (assuming that paper design "added up" in the first place - a lot of them don't :twisted: )
Because I am designing "my own", often I end up, in some direction, only to find that something interferes or doesn't work for practical reasons,
so back one goes and things get re-arranged (only to find another problem... :roll: )
All great fun :thumbright:

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:35 pm

bambuko wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:21 pm Yes indeed ttg,
but CAD is cruel mistress as well - it doesn't tolerate "near enough" ;)
What is taking all this time, is that I am not "modelling" in CAD, I am designing in "CAD",
so... if there was an existing design on paper, it would take no time to create the model (assuming that paper design "added up" in the first place - a lot of them don't :twisted: )
Because I am designing "my own", often I end up, in some direction, only to find that something interferes or doesn't work for practical reasons,
so back one goes and things get re-arranged (only to find another problem... :roll: )
All great fun :thumbright:

Hear Hear :thumbup:
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:05 pm

At long last... bit of an update.
As mentioned before I wasn't all that happy with the first attempt.
My brazing was dodgy, frame ended up a bit wonky and having real thing in front of me (rather than CAD image) made me change some of my ideas.
So everything you've seen so far ended up in a scrap bin and I started again.
This time I have used SIFBRONZE No101 (instead of No1) - added managanese makes it flow better, especially in the kind of joints I am using.
I have also decided not to braze all frame stretchers, only brazing front and rear buffer beams (as per original LBSC advice).
This is the result:

Image

All the stretchers are secured with bolts.
I have decided to move to metric - selection available from https://ghw-modellbau.de was just what I wanted.
I have used mostly 1.4mm 2mm hex bolts and some 1.6mm 2.5mm hex.
The only possible problem going forward is the exchange rate...

Image

Next was the new smokebox design, to allow coal firing.
Here I am making bottom part of the somekobox, which will fit between the frames:
Image

and here it is ready for fitting of the top/proper smokebox:

Image

and viewed from the bottom:

Image

it's all fabricated/brazed from sheet and than milled to size to fit tightly in between the frames.
Bottom will eventually be closed to make it into airtight box.

Smokebox proper is another fabrication from steel:

Image

Front door and chimney to follow...
In the meantime, that's how the whole caboodle looks like:

Image

TBC

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by IanC » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:08 pm

Superb workmanship.
Ian

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:15 pm

I have been pondering the fabrication of my smoke box, you have given me some leads and ideas.
I reckon I will use silver brazing (56% Harris, I use it daily in my work) for my fabrications.
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:16 pm

Smokebox assembly temporarily test fitted to the frame:

Image

and from below, showing bottom closing plate fitted as well:

Image

and with all the frame stretchers in place:

Image

In this view, you can see the two temporary bolts/nuts securing smokebox to the frames (eventually they will be replaced by bolts securing cylinders).
Above them two (larger) holes for steam and exhaust piping:

Image

Also the brass angle for securing/supporting cab floor.
The two CSK slot screws between front and middle axle will be (eventually) hidden behind motion bracket.

Another view from below:

Image

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:33 pm

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:15 pm ... I reckon I will use silver brazing (56% Harris, I use it daily in my work) for my fabrications.
Not an attempt to teach grandmother to suck eggs :mrgreen:

The two reasons I am persisting with Sifbronze are:
cost - silver solder is so ***** expensive (so where I can get away without using silver solder I will not use it)
and because I can braze in two or three stages without the whole thing falling apart (I haven't used any screws to hold bits together before brazing).

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by FWLR » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:16 am

Nice bit of brazing there and some very nice machine work also.
Shame you had to throw the first attempt away. Did you salvage any of it. You put a lot of very good time and effort into it.....

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:07 am

FWLR wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:16 am Nice bit of brazing there...
I would call it tolerable rather than nice :D
need to practice more :thumbup:
...Shame you had to throw the first attempt away. Did you salvage any of it. You put a lot of very good time and effort into it....
No didn't salvage anything.
Job worth doing is worth doing well, so no regrets :)

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by dewintondave » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:03 am

It's lovely to see so much steel being used :thumbright:
Best wishes,
Dave

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by FWLR » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:13 am

bambuko wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:07 am
FWLR wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:16 am Nice bit of brazing there...
I would call it tolerable rather than nice :D
need to practice more :thumbup:


Still it's better than mine... :lol: :lol:

...Shame you had to throw the first attempt away. Did you salvage any of it. You put a lot of very good time and effort into it....
No didn't salvage anything.
Job worth doing is worth doing well, so no regrets :)
Pity that, it's possible to remove brazing isn't. You could have used it for something. But you are correct though, you do a brilliant job at what ever you do. :thumbright:

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:58 am

dewintondave wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:03 am It's lovely to see so much steel being used :thumbright:
Indeed, that's one of my objectives in this project.

btw - how did you secure the rivets in the smokebox in your Wild Rose?
Brian Wilson's book is talking about using superglue for dummy/non-functional rivets but I am not convinced that it is good idea for coal fired smokebox?

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by GTB » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:32 pm

bambuko wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:58 am Brian Wilson's book is talking about using superglue for dummy/non-functional rivets but I am not convinced that it is good idea for coal fired smokebox?
The simplest option is not to fit rivets, as a lot of late build Fowlers had flush riveted smokeboxes. My late '20s Fowler 0-4-2T was one of them, which saved me a lot of fiddly work. Possibly the smokeboxes were welded, but I'm not sure Fowler were that adventurous back then.

Anyway......

I wouldn't use superglue myself, but Brian points out the smokebox paint will hold them in the longer term, so a blob of smokebox paint applied to the rivet from inside the smokebox would probably work.

When I built my Baldwin it needed a row of rivets at each end of the smokebox. I pressed the ones at the front into the wrapper before I rolled it, as my rolls have a groove which would clear the rivets. The larger rear ones were added after rolling using individual brass rivets and I couldn't get a straight whack at the rivet to close it in the normal way.

The rivets weren't structural so I made up a simple L-shaped dolly that could be given a whack from outside the smokebox and have sufficient leverage to burr the rivet over enough to keep it in place. Don't have a photo of the work in progress, but hope that gives you the idea.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by dewintondave » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:03 am

bambuko wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:58 am
btw - how did you secure the rivets in the smokebox in your Wild Rose?
I used slotted 8BA brass round head screws.
Best wishes,
Dave

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:09 am

Thank you for your suggestions.
I will have to make few tests and ponder my options...
btw there are also brass threaded roundhead screws with no slots

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:55 am

GTB wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:32 pm ...The simplest option is not to fit rivets, as a lot of late build Fowlers had flush riveted smokeboxes. My late '20s Fowler 0-4-2T was one of them, which saved me a lot of fiddly work. Possibly the smokeboxes were welded, but I'm not sure Fowler were that adventurous back then...
Spot on Graeme :thumbright:
Thank you for this suggestion.
Did a bit more homework and indeed the prototype for my model doesn't have any rivets, instead front face of smokebox appears to be bolted to the round body.
Here a photo of sad remains in a museum in Australia link:

Image

Couple of things that might interest some of you :)

It appears to be one the last few steam locomotives to be built by Fowler in UK (in 1935).
It was this design that formed the basis of Bundaberg locos build In Australia around 15 years later.

It was (unusually) equipped with draw gear permitting operation on both 2ft and 3ft 6inch gauge.
This was acomplished by laying a third rail adjacent to the 2ft track to 3ft 6inch gauge.
Centre buffer and draw gear is symmetrical with 2ft gauge track, but the three link coupling and hook and steel face buffing blocks are assymetrical,
to accomodate 3ft 6inch rolling stock.
Last edited by bambuko on Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:33 am

Poor thing, those tanks don't look like they will hold water anymore!

I like the look of it though, would be good to get hold of a plastic looking model and weather appropriately to have the loco stored in a yard.

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:07 pm

:mrgreen: I can see the attraction ttg

For balance - there is works photo of the same loco (Airdmillan) here

Michael R. Lane Collection (from negatives in the Museum of English Rural Life)

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:09 pm

Bit more progress to report :thumbup:
Started on the cab floor:

Image
Brass angle is soldered and riveted to the floor and the whole thing is then "bolted" to loco frame:

Image

and, viewed from below:

Image

I tried riveting alone but wasn't happy with result, so ended up using rivets to locate the brass angle and soldered the whole thing together.
Started by using silver solder, but the heat needed was distoring the floor and any excess solder (difficult to avoid... at least with my skills) was diificult to clean up neatly.
Ended up using high temp soft solder (known as Comsol or 5/S alloy according to BS) - lovely to work with and easy to clean.
It needed pre-tinning particularly on steel but that was easy with Baker's fluid as flux and home made silicone brush.

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:56 pm

Lovely work, I find soft soldering so much easier!

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