RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

A place for the discussion of garden railways and any garden style/scale portable and/or indoor layouts
User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:56 pm

I likes an automatic uncoupler so I would be interested in this as well.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Got back today and the SBR is still white so I am going to start again:

20180817_134422-02.jpeg
20180817_134422-02.jpeg (350.58 KiB) Viewed 3628 times

Also, when I touch the ballast I can feel it give way underneath so it has not set hard.

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by ge_rik » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:12 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:48 pm Got back today and the SBR is still white so I am going to start again:
20180817_134422-02.jpeg
Also, when I touch the ballast I can feel it give way underneath so it has not set hard.
That does seem strange. I've not that happen. It can sometimes take a couple or three days to harden off fully, but never had it take longer. Mind you, I usually use concrete to bring the 'ground' up to sleeper or rail height, and then have thin layers of dressing on top fixed down with SBR. Not tried having a deep layer of ballast fixed with SBR. I use a potting grit and cement mix for ballasting track in non station areas.

I think Peter fixes his ballast in both station and non station areas with SBR, so maybe my suggestion of watering it in afterwards is a problem for deeper ballast??

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:40 pm

Something does seem a bit odd, I was quite expecting Tom to say it was fine when he got back.

I did an entire station just at the end of the hot weather. It had a day or so before the rain came down and even though I covered it before the rain started it was so heavy and coming sideways that it got under the polythene and next time I looked everything had gone white! However I gently prodded and all seemed firm. Left it uncovered for a few hours of no rain and it dried out and the white disappeared. Covered it up but the next rain got under again, and again it went white but only on the sleepers and rails. This happened a 2 or three times and each time it was a bit better but yesterday morning it was all fine and no more white.
So, I think the white is a symptom of a thick layer, because where it went white on the rail head I could actually peel it off in a long thin strip, and the same on top of the Peco buffer stop and some of the sleepers.
Philip

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:58 pm

Tom, while you were away you had the opportunity to keep it covered, which I hope you did, this would have given sufficient time for the SBR to dry had it not been diluted with water. The white will eventually disappear in time and when the soft feel of the subsurface sets it would be good to give another application of NEAT SBR and COVER it again.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:51 am

My base is gravel boards covered with roofing felt then 10mm pea shingle. Finally, a layer of smaller fish gravel is poured on top.

I think most of you are using a solid base such as concrete or wood with a thin layer of ballast on top so this may be why SBR is working out for you.

Peter, this test section was covered when I went away as advised.

I might try a different area this time using no water to prep the area and covering it up after applying SBR (to note though the first time I tried this on the siding area I didn't use any water).

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:36 am

I have roofing felt on timber with the track screwed down to that and then ballast up to sleeper top.
Philip

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:55 am

Gravel boards with roofing felt is used throughout my entire railway and is well suited as a base for the fine grain stone I use as ballast as well as crushed oyster shell which I use as alongside as ground cover. I also use fine (N scale) 'sand' in the harbour scene. All of these materials are stuck down with SBR and remain solid once allowed sufficient time to set.
Picture shows ballast and ground cover as described......
IMG_4429.JPG
IMG_4429.JPG (197.64 KiB) Viewed 4126 times

As you can see there is no sheen on the surface.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:15 pm

What brand of SBR is everyone using please just as a comparison.

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Tom, I use Everbuild 503 SBR from ebay, currently available at £14.98 freepost.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:36 pm

Mine is Cementone SBR ( by Bostik), which I bought from B&Q ( I think) about 3 or 4 years ago. It has a few lumps in it now but still works fine.
Philip

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:41 pm

philipy wrote: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:36 pm Mine is Cementone SBR ( by Bostik), which I bought from B&Q ( I think) about 3 or 4 years ago. It has a few lumps in it now but still works fine.
You have the same product I am using then.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:46 pm

Photo of second test patch straight after applying SBR neat from a spray bottle (I do not use as much this time, is this the amount you guys apply by looking at the picture?):

20180818_153702-02.jpeg
20180818_153702-02.jpeg (309.56 KiB) Viewed 4023 times

This is now covered and I will leave it alone!

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Difficult to tell from the picture but well done for persevering. The trouble with using a spray is evident from the amount all over the sleepers etc... I always drip it on from a plastic container...(I have mentioned this before)..... avoiding the sleepers. 'Evo-stik' container is good for this. (other containers are available!)
When yours is dry it will be necessary to peel off the SBR from the sleepers as they will probably remain shiny.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:15 pm

So using a pipet like I use to use for OO scale ballasting would be better?

I spent half hour trying to clear the spray bottle as it didn't work as well!

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Your picture looks about like mine after spraying, although as Peter said, it's difficult to be sure.
Peter is also correct about needing to get it off the sleepers ( and rails). A quick wipe with a J-cloth is all I do to the worst affected ones. If not, wait until it dries to the rubbery stage and you can peel it off.
Philip

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:46 pm

I did wipe the rails with a wet cloth and have now done the same with the sleepers although I reckon they will need the latex cover picking off when dry as I did not wipe them straight after applying the SBR. Next time, I will use a pipet as well.

For now, I will leave this patch covered for a week and see what happens.

User avatar
Lonsdaler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1226
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:50 am
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Lonsdaler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:13 am

Tom,
There is a major difference to how you have set your track, compared to Peter, Philip and myself - you have that layer of 10mm pea shingle, with your ballast on top. I have found that SBR doesn't hold larger sized stones so well. I think you will have nicely firm ballast, with 'mobile' pea shingle below.
I use Everbuild as well, but don't pay £1000+ for it!
Phil

Sporadic Garden Railer who's inconsistencies know no bounds

My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077

User avatar
Peter Butler
Driver
Driver
Posts: 5219
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: West Wales

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:34 am

I totally agree with Phil and have reported previously about my early experiments with larger grade ballast material, in my case horticultural grit, which didn't stay put as the SBR works better on fine grade stone.
My first attempt looked like this......
IMG_2170.JPG
IMG_2170.JPG (205.68 KiB) Viewed 3968 times
Unfortunately the SBR doesn't have enough surface contact area and when it forms a skin there is not sufficient bond to hold together.
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:44 pm

I am getting a bit obsessive about this!

A spare piece of gravel board with the track screwed directly to it (sleepers were drilled and counter sunk so the screws are flush then covered with ballast to hide them):

20180819_145225-01.jpeg
20180819_145225-01.jpeg (274.65 KiB) Viewed 3953 times
20180819_145244-01.jpeg
20180819_145244-01.jpeg (264.6 KiB) Viewed 3953 times

The coal dust was sprinkled on after applying SBR as this seems to work better. I also added washing up liquid as when using a pipet the SBR does not flow very well. No shiny sleepers this time as I did not use the spray bottle. You can still see white patches so hopefully these will go in time.

This test is to see if the ballast sets without having the larger pea shingle under it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests