Austro Daimler Build project - VIDEO

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by GTB » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:21 am

philipy wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:04 pm If you remember, my original plan was to to use a 30rpm N20 Gearmotor, but trials showed that was too slow even for this wee beastie, so I swapped it for a similar 100rpm version. Going flat out ( ie no motor speed control) it is now perhaps just a tiny bit fast, but it should just about be spot on with the rc control, in due course.
I saw the chassis photo in another thread and it looks very workmanlike. Sounds like you are happy with how it runs.

Running a small loco at 30rpm at the wheels means it would take about 20 mins for one circuit of my backyard at a scale speed of about 1.5 mph, with the motor doing an imitation of a dentist's drill. In wet weather the snails would be overtaking it on the outside..... :shock:

Even back in my days working in HO, I never understood why british modellers insisted on slow running by using very high reduction gear boxes with the motor screaming its head off at max. revs. I like things to run nice and quiet and set my mechs up with lower reduction ratios and run the motor at half the rated voltage. The motors don't wear out as fast and now with battery power I don't need to find space for as many cells, especially in the small railmotors I like to build.

What Rx were you planning on using? I bought a couple of the RSC version of the new Micron MR603a, one of which was intended for use in a railmotor. What doesn't show in most of the photos is the electrolytic capacitor on the back of the board, which made it too large to fit in the intended model.

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by philipy » Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:23 am

GTB wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:21 am

What Rx were you planning on using? I bought a couple of the RSC version of the new Micron MR603a, one of which was intended for use in a railmotor. What doesn't show in most of the photos is the electrolytic capacitor on the back of the board, which made it too large to fit in the intended model.
I was planning on using a Micron 603b, but I'm on a waiting list of unknown length for delivery, so yesterday morning I dropped Andy a line asking about his thoughts for using a Deltang 41/43/45 instead.

Interesting, your comment about the capacitor. I must admit that I had wondered why the board dims had such a large figure ( 10mm) for the thickness, but that would explain it. In my works layout planning for this A-D I had simply drawn a rectangular box of the correct o/a dims and worked with that, so it doesn't bother me as such this time around because I have the room.
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by Phil.P » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:17 am

The 'B' is better, in this respect :
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MR603 'A' and 'B'
MR603 'A' and 'B'
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by Phil.P » Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:24 am

I have boards you can use with the smaller Deltang receivers..
A 'bigger' ESC, and a regulator for the supply to the receiver. These allow you to go up to a '2S' battery, and more than the 500mA limit of the receiver's ESC.

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by Andrew » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:45 pm

philipy wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:04 pm Unfortunately, life has got in the way of 'art' for the last couple of weeks
I know that feeling...

philipy wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:04 pm Hopefully, there should be some proper progress in the next few days, so watch this space.
Looking forward to it! Sounds great so far...

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by philipy » Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:52 pm

Slow, but progress.
This shows the driver, his seat and his handbrake ( at least I assume thats what it is - it appears on the drawings, but no piccys, unfortunately). Also the fuel tank, plus the engine which is a sort of cobbled up version, made up from several pictures which appear to show various versions. I used the bits which appealed to me for one reason or another, plus some of my own invention for practical modelling purposes.
P1010003.JPG
P1010003.JPG (73.06 KiB) Viewed 4521 times
I've also now got the r/c, which is working fine on the motor control.
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by philipy » Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:33 am

Still creeping forward slowly and I've now got to the stage of THINKING about painting :D .
This is where I need the assistance of the more petrol-headed amongst the membership. The engine is completely exposed, so I've been trying to find what colour a Daimler engine would have been painted back in the day. The best I've been able to find, on a vintage car forum, is a reference to "Daimler standard grey-green" but no indication what that means in the real world. I also found a bespoke paint maunufacturer who sells Daimler paint allegedly matched to a piece of brand new and unused piece of engine, but again no colour swatch to even give a clue and I don't really need complete canful of paint to find out!
Any offers anyone?
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by GTB » Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:12 pm

philipy wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:33 am Still creeping forward slowly and I've now got to the stage of THINKING about painting :D .
This is where I need the assistance of the more petrol-headed amongst the membership.
Accordinging to the original posted links that started this, while that particular model of loco was built by Austro-Daimler, the motor was actually made by Jenbacher Werke. Who also made their own diesel locos.

Plug 'Jenbacher JW20 diesel motor' into google and you'll get a few coloured photos, but the photos show a single horizontal cylinder motor with twin flywheels, in a range of colours......... :roll: When I get back home I'll see if there is anything in the book on Bundaberg Foundry diesels, as they made a few small mining locos under licence that used Jenbacher diesel motors.

There was more than one Daimler company in the world, in the UK it was part of Jaguar.....

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by philipy » Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:09 pm

Graeme,
Thanks for your input as always. I can't see where it mentions the Jenbacher in the articles, but I'm notoriously blind when it comes to searching.
However, the end outlines and plan drawings as part of the original drawings seem to show one of these ( or at least a similar model) : https://www.austrodaimler.at/fotogaleri ... fahrzeuge/ - picture 16 in the gallery.
Which is described as "Austro Daimler 4 Zylinder Feldbahnmotor Type FB 12 mit 12PS Leistung, luftgekühlter Benzinmotor mit Draisinengetriebe, gebaut ab 1928."
Which Google translates as "Austro Daimler 4-cylinder field railway engine type FB 12 with 12 hp, air-cooled petrol engine with handcar transmission, built from 1928"

"
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by GTB » Wed Oct 05, 2022 10:36 pm

philipy wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:09 pm Which Google translates as "Austro Daimler 4-cylinder field railway engine type FB 12 with 12 hp, air-cooled petrol engine with handcar transmission, built from 1928.
Ahhhh... I was looking at a link posted by Andrew.http://www.feldbahn.at/fahrzeuge/verbre ... aimler.php

Looking at it again, I may have gotten off track, as your model looks like the 'Kromag' loco, with the lifting roof and a steel body. The Daimler shown on that page is fetchingly clad in varnished wood......

Industrial engines wouldn't necessarily be the same colour as a car engine. There's an early Austro-Daimler industrial engine in the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney. Looks like the sort of colour you'd find in Revell and other brands of military paint colours. https://collection.maas.museum/object/206779

Re-engine it with a small Gardiner diesel, or a Dorman, which is what any sensible '30s british engineer would have done when the original petrol motor wore out. 8)

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by ge_rik » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:45 am

I do love this forum. I'm not sure there would be such an in-depth discussion about the shade of grey needed to paint a diesel engine anywhere else.

It reminds me of my brother who has very conservative tastes and viewpoints. Many years ago, my mother asked if he would like her to knit him a jumper for Christmas and if so what colour. He said that he would, and could he have it in grey. Then after a moment's refection he added (quite seriously) "But not a flashy grey".

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by GTB » Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:24 pm

ge_rik wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:45 am I do love this forum. I'm not sure there would be such an in-depth discussion about the shade of grey needed to paint a diesel engine anywhere else.
Shhhhh....... I was trying to get Phillip's inner finescale modeller to rise to the bait of 'scale colour'. ;)

I take it you've never read car enthusiast discussion groups. Have a look at the subject of what colour green a Landrover should be painted. Or ask the question on an AFV modelling forum about the colour that post war British tanks were painted. If you want blood on the floor bring up the subject of GWR green on a UK finescale railway modelling forum.

No, I haven't taken up modelling tanks, but I've recently been looking for a bronze green paint to use on my current loco project. The commercial modelling offerings don't float my boat and like Phillip, I don't fancy paying for a 1 litre tin of bespoke BS381c 223, when I'll only use 10ml and then the rest will dry in the tin. So far online I've found at least seven recipes for the 'one true colour' and I'd put money on them all looking different to each other when I start making test mixes......... :shock:

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by philipy » Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:44 am

GTB wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:24 pm
Shhhhh....... I was trying to get Phillip's inner finescale modeller to rise to the bait of 'scale colour'. ;)

........ If you want blood on the floor bring up the subject of GWR green on a UK finescale railway modelling forum.
My inner finescale modeller has better things to worry about on this project that the colour of the engine ;) but if I can get it approximately correct, then I will, if only to add a little variety to what appears to be a uniformly dull grey blob with rust patches.

By 'scale colour' I assume that you are referring to the effects of lighting and distance to the colour that the eye perceives...... :roll: We are NOT going down that particular rabbit hole! :lol:

If you really want blood on the carpet then you need to get involved in the discussion of the "true" shade of Great Western Light Stone and Dark Stone aka Stone No.1 and Stone No.3 ( the two colours they used on station buildings) which were apparently mixed on site by the Foreman Painter to a nominally standard, official recipe - using a "one splash of this and two splashes of that" type ofprecision. :lol:
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by Phil.P » Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:13 am

I thought Mr Stroudley's (sp?) 'improved' Green, was the one to get people going?

But, I think I would paint it a lighter (or darker) grey than the bodywork, and pick out the odd bit in gunmetal, then an overall black-wash?

But then I haven't painted anything seriously, since I was about 14 and used to dip a 'mop' into a bottle of neat Airfix 'nail varnish'.
:(

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by philipy » Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:27 pm

Phil.P wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:13 am

But, I think I would paint it a lighter (or darker) grey than the bodywork, and pick out the odd bit in gunmetal, then an overall black-wash?
Thanks Phil.
Yes I was thinking something along those lines myself, if nothing else come to light.
Looking at the few picture that show a glimpse of part of the engine, it looks to be not too dissimilar to the body colour, but of course with old pictures or even low res modern ones, it's difficult to pick out any subtle colour differences.
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by GTB » Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:56 pm

philipy wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:44 am By 'scale colour' I assume that you are referring to the effects of lighting and distance to the colour that the eye perceives...... :roll: We are NOT going down that particular rabbit hole! :lol:
More like falling into a black hole in my opinion. Or maybe through the looking glass? ....... 8) Glad to know we agree.

I'd forgotten about GWR stone. Probably suppressed the memory, as I got exposed to it at a sensitive age, when I discovered there were such things as model railway magazines and then found that in the letters page.

To get back to the point, given what old car engines of my acquaintance look like, pretty much any mid grey with a large helping of oil, grease, coolant leaks, rust and general grot would look about right to go with a rusty grey exterior.

I forgot to ask earlier how the mech design has worked out. It sounded like you were happy with it in an earlier post.

Graeme

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by philipy » Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:15 pm

GTB wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:56 pm
I forgot to ask earlier how the mech design has worked out. It sounded like you were happy with it in an earlier post.
Think we are pretty much on the same page re colour.

The mechanical side of things is pretty much getting to where I want it to be.
The basic running is fine, but I've been playing with some add-on bits and pieces which have been a case of three steps forward and two backwards for a couple of weeks, but fingers crossed I think I'm on the last bit now.
Then just got to wait for my r/c receiver to come back from Micron. After a couple of weeks playing I simply could not get it to accept a minor program alteration. The Prog4 programmer didn't want to know and Andy said that they are so unreliable that he has stopped selling them. I then tried using my Tx22 in programming mode but that didn't work either, so I gave up and decided to let the expert have a go and posted it off about 10 days ago.
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by GTB » Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:39 am

philipy wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:15 pm The basic running is fine, but I've been playing with some add-on bits and pieces which have been a case of three steps forward and two backwards for a couple of weeks, but fingers crossed I think I'm on the last bit now.
Been in that place more times than I care to contemplate. I think I've got a life membership in that particular club....... :roll:

I've become allergic to programmable electronics over recent years and deliberately chose the RCS version of the MR603 which is plug 'n play.

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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by philipy » Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:12 am

GTB wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:39 am
I've become allergic to programmable electronics over recent years and deliberately chose the RCS version of the MR603 which is plug 'n play.
The Rx41d is plug n play as long as you want the pre-programmed options, and as I said the basic speed/direction control is fine but I simply wanted to program Ch4 on P3 to operate a servo and for which I need to send a set of 4 digits .... simples :roll:
I think the problem is to do with the serial-USB interface. The driver for the very old fashioned adapter cable now shows an error in device manager which says it was retired in 2012! It all worked the last time I used it which was in about 2015/17 -ish I think, but I suspect that Windows 10 doesn't want to play nicely now. It really isn't worth messing about buying new serial adapters and Andy at Micron was happy to do it for me. If I had told him exactly what I was trying to do he'd have done it anyway when he sold it to me.
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Re: Austro Daimler Build project

Post by GTB » Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:12 pm

philipy wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:12 am I think the problem is to do with the serial-USB interface.
I went down that particular rabbit hole to perdition when I converted my HO layout to DCC about 15 years ago. I think that experience was what finally turned me into a neo-luddite......

I recently read through the Rx41d documentation. It took a cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down to recover.

Graeme

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