Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

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philipy
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Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by philipy » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:32 pm

This all started a few months ago with a discussion between Steve and I about the fine print capability of fdm printers and the fact that resin printers are capable of much finer detail. To cut a long story short, after seeing some of Steve's work, I ended up splashing out on a resin printer - the Anycubic Photon S.
Although the drawing work is exactly the same and needs to generate an stl file, after that it's a very different beastie. The drawing still needs slicing but not with Cura, et al, it needs either dedicated software as supplied with the machine or the Cura resin printer equivalent, which is called "Chitubox".

The print volume of my printer is relatively limited so wagon sides would be a challenge and the process is also very slow, because of the layer heights of only 0.05mm, so it is more suited to small detailed components.

For various reasons the machine sat unboxed but not even switched on for a couple of months, but then something cropped up which gave me the incentive to bite the bullet and find how to actually use it!

You may have seen the FR tipper wagon I was playing with on https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... &start=150 .
The photo of the prototype has a rather prominent cast wagon plate in the middle of the tipper side. I tried to print this using my ordinary printer but it really didn't want to know about the fine lettering around the edges, all I got was one or two odd blobs, so this was the ideal test project for my new machine.

Firstly I tried the test print file that came with the printer and was truly amazed at the quality and complexity of the print. This is it, and this prints as one piece with all the internal detail included:

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Anyway, after refining my basic Sketchup drawing, having noticed a couple of errors, I put it through the slicer.

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For technical reasons the print is produced upside down hanging from the build plate, and removal is easiest if the model hangs from supports, also it is said that it works best if the model is not parallel to the build plate. So I angled my wagon plate in the slicer and pressed on with it. An hour or so later there it was, hanging upside down on the bottom of the plate. It then needs washing in IPA to remove excess resin and then half an hour under a UV lamp to finish the resin curing.

I must say I was amazed at the quality, better than I had dared to even hope. The biggest problem was painting it, bearing in mind that the letters are only 0.2mm high!
I first sprayed it matt black with a very short, distant burst to avoid flooding it.

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Then used white acrylic in various ways to pick out the lettering. The final version was simply using a 00000 brush under a magnifying glass. Not very good but it does look a bit like worn paintwork from a distance.

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So I enlarged the lettering slightly, making it now a whole 0.4mm high! and changed the central numbering to give 3 different options. The plates themselves are 12mm wide.

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I had also noticed that because the plate was angled in the printer, as all the gurus say should be done, there were microscopic steps across the face of the plate, so when I sliced the revised drawing I did it with the plates parallel to the build plate. An hour or so later I had 3 plates hanging from the build plate. One advantage of this type of printer is that it doesn't matter how many objects you print at once, it takes as long as the biggest one would take by itself.

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Since these plates were intended for wagons that Andrew is planning, I put them in the post to him to finish and paint.
He chose to reverse my painting sequence by spraying white and infilling with black acrylic and wiping it off the faces of the lettering. This seems to have worked very well. It is possible to get coloured resins which would potentially ease this but I've only got the trial bottle of translucent green that came with the machine. It is also worth noting that the resin supplied seems to be somewhat brittle, but I don't know if others are less so.

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As with anything, it's horses for courses, of course, but resin printers are amazing!
Philip

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by -steves- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:21 pm

Those plates in resin look absolutely fantastic. Now you are seeing the major difference between the two, a bit messy and a little faffying around, but well worth the results :thumbup:

I am glad you have finally opened it and opened a new world of 3D printing :thumbup:
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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by big-ted » Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:50 am

Very nice. You may have missed my similar effort to make loco builders plates using a form3 resin printer:

https://gardenrails.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 90#p156551

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by philipy » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:01 am

Ted, I did see it and in fact commented at the time. We both went through very similar thought processes and experience, I think.

I know you commented about removing the support pips. There are many youtube 'experts' of course, but this one seems quite good on this subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xolVj0izVo. This is part2 of a series and part three is quite good as well.
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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by Trevor Thompson » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:30 pm

Wow

This looks very promising.

I am rather hoping one of those printers might turn up in three weeks time!

Trevor

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by Andrew » Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:33 pm

philipy wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:32 pm
Since these plates were intended for wagons that Andrew is planning, I put them in the post to him to finish and paint.
..and I'm happy to confirm that they really are quite exquisite... I've just attached Wood Valley Works ones to two wagons (see my Rolling Stock thread), and they're great, I'd recommend them, nice and legible etc, but they lack any relief and so aren't a patch on Philip's ones.

The potential for name and numberplates, "cast iron" signs, and other details appears to be huge.

Cheers,

Andrew.

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by TonyW » Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:55 pm

I know very little about this technology, but wouldn't be easier to print the number plates in white and then paint them black, rather than the other way around?

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by philipy » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:29 pm

TonyW wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:55 pm I know very little about this technology, but wouldn't be easier to print the number plates in white and then paint them black, rather than the other way around?
It quite likely would Tony. I tried spraying them black and painting white, and Andrew tried spraying white then overpaintng the black, which was slightly better. However, currently I only have the translucent green resin which came with the printer for trial purposes.
There are many suppliers of resins all with slightly different characteristics and varied printer settings, and at over £20 a litre, coloured resin will have to wait until I'm more familiar with the machine and can make a halfway educated guess at a suitable product.a
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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by TonyW » Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:42 pm

Fair enough! Thank you.

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:25 pm

This is all very exciting. The concept of being able to make detailed parts accurately is very powerful. It opens up lots of possibilities, people, name plates builders plates station name boards railway signs and all manner of things you just cant buy. And you can make them accurately to a particular prototype.

So I am intrigued by the details:

You mentioned that the print had to be post cured and then washed.

Does that need special equipment or can the curing be done in the printer after it has finished building?

Is the washing just ordinary water and a tap?

Trevor

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by -steves- » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:30 am

Trevor Thompson wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:25 pm This is all very exciting. The concept of being able to make detailed parts accurately is very powerful. It opens up lots of possibilities, people, name plates builders plates station name boards railway signs and all manner of things you just cant buy. And you can make them accurately to a particular prototype.

So I am intrigued by the details:

You mentioned that the print had to be post cured and then washed.

Does that need special equipment or can the curing be done in the printer after it has finished building?

Is the washing just ordinary water and a tap?

Trevor
People figures and the like come out exceedingly well.

No special "equipment" is needed as such. Once the print comes out the printer it should be rigorously washed in isopropanol, (amazon do a lovely little "pickle" container that has a basket in it which means you cab shake it around and then just pull the basket out). After that, rinse thoroughly in tap water to wash the isopropanol off again. Finally leave in direct sunlight for 10 -15 mins or get a UV lamp and leave it under that for half an hour, turning as needed.
The buck stops here .......

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by philipy » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:07 am

Trevor, Steve has beaten me to it, and is far more expert than me, but I'm going to start a new thread with what I've learned so far about the technicalities.
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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:17 pm

Steve and Phil

Many thanks for the answers.

I expect one in less than three weeks - in fact a box is sitting in my workshop - so you can see why Im interested. Also glad that I don't need to get that extra curing and washing system. Isopropyl is standard stuff and I am happy to use that.

Trevor

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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by -steves- » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:00 pm

Just keep it out of sunlight, I put a cardboard box over mine when it has resin in it, just to be sure, it has air holes in the top but it stops any sunlight getting anywhere near it. Better safe than sorry in my view.
The buck stops here .......

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Member of Peterborough and District Association
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Re: Resin 3D printers - wagon plates

Post by Tropic Blunder » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:11 am

Fantastic work. Im always blown away at how fast the technology moves forward. Imagine where we'll be in 10 years!
Jake

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