Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

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Trevor Thompson
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Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Trevor Thompson » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:40 pm

I have just started yet another project.

Some years ago I made a model of coach 15 from ply in the traditional way. The box which holds it (and the curly roof brake van) which was also scratch built has a section to hold coach 16, and a 4 wheel coach. I have recently made the Ashbury 4 wheeler for that slot, and now it seems time to make coach 16 to fill the last slot.

This is coach 15, so you can see what I am creating:
IMG_1360.jpg


The prototypes are long bogie coaches - and they are supposed to have been the first narrow gauge bogie coaches. The end balconies were provided for passengers in the Birmingham 4 wheel coaches (sometimes known as Bug Boxes)which were also part of the train. Those 4 wheelers have longitudinal seats so passengers standing on one side of the coach may need to get to the other side of the coach to find a seat. When the bogie coaches were introduced the balconies enabled that to happen.The end compartments are odd as well - the doors to them from the side are shorter - because the floor is raised at the ends to accommodate the bogies. If you have to crouch going through a door it has to be wider - and that explains the wide doors in that compartment. Although those doors were only intended to pass luggage through, because the removable seats blocked those doors. The doors in the end compartment were to allow passengers to get into those end compartments when the seats were in place. It seems that the first class passengers servants and luggage were to go in these end compartments. I wonder if they were ever used like that?
So another particularly quirky coach!

So far I have most of it designed. Luckily these coaches are symmetrical. So half of one side suffices for both ends of each side. It just needs that half side to be inverted for the other end. Due to the size of the printer bed (150mm x 150mm x 150mm) I have to print each side in four parts, two parts not inverted and two inverted.

Here is the first half side shown against the model.
IMG_1362.jpg
Note that the three joints in each side are placed to be in the doorways, and the doors are going to be printed separately. the screwdriver blade points to the join in this. You can see that it is on the edge of a doorway - so I think it will be well hidden. The joint in the centre is in the middle of the first class doorway, so again there will only be short sections top and bottom visible.

The material visible in the doorways is a strip top and bottom behind the actual side, which act as a spacer for glazing material.

I have not included the ventilators which go over the doors in these prints - I think I will make them with the resin printer.

This is going to take some time to print - each quarter side takes 4.5 hours to print - so 36 hours for the sides alone.

Much more to follow!


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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by -steves- » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:52 pm

Looking forwards to the more to follow. :thumbup:
The buck stops here .......

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by philipy » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:07 am

-steves- wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:52 pm
Looking forwards to the more to follow. :thumbup:
Yes indeed. :)

This is not a criticism in any way, but I notice the the diagonal print marks across the panels. This is something I always seem to get and so far have not found a way to stop it. I've always assumed it is to do with speed and distance of retraction whn the nozzle moves across, but no amount of fiddling seems to affect it. Does anyone have any ideas?

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by ge_rik » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:27 am

philipy wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:07 am

This is not a criticism in any way, but I notice the the diagonal print marks across the panels. This is something I always seem to get and so far have not found a way to stop it. I've always assumed it is to do with speed and distance of retraction whn the nozzle moves across, but no amount of fiddling seems to affect it. Does anyone have any ideas?
I find it's reduced with 'ironing' in Cura.

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Andrew » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:16 pm

Wow! That's going to be quite a feat of 3D printing...

Looking at your existing model, does the coupling pivot with the bogie? I could do with building a full length FR bogie carriage at some point (I currently make do with a 4 compartment lookalike), but don't know whether I could persuade it round my (3'6" radius) curves - I'd wondered about that as a potential solution...

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Trevor Thompson » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:06 pm

philipy wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:07 am
-steves- wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:52 pm
Looking forwards to the more to follow. :thumbup:
Yes indeed. :)

This is not a criticism in any way, but I notice the the diagonal print marks across the panels. This is something I always seem to get and so far have not found a way to stop it. I've always assumed it is to do with speed and distance of retraction whn the nozzle moves across, but no amount of fiddling seems to affect it. Does anyone have any ideas?
I cant find a way of preventing it either. I just flood the surface with paint to cover it!

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Trevor Thompson » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:08 pm

Andrew wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:16 pm
Wow! That's going to be quite a feat of 3D printing...

Looking at your existing model, does the coupling pivot with the bogie? I could do with building a full length FR bogie carriage at some point (I currently make do with a 4 compartment lookalike), but don't know whether I could persuade it round my (3'6" radius) curves - I'd wondered about that as a potential solution...
Yes the coupling pivots at the bogie pivot. My curves are also 3' 6" radius. The bogie coaches go around them, although it takes a bit of fettling to make the bogies clear the bodywork.

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Andrew » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:57 pm

Excellent, thanks Trevor! If you get a chance, a photo of how it looks from the underneath would be very much appreciated - no hurry though, it's a long way down the to-do list...

All the best,

Andrew

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:29 pm

Andrew wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:57 pm
Excellent, thanks Trevor! If you get a chance, a photo of how it looks from the underneath would be very much appreciated - no hurry though, it's a long way down the to-do list...

All the best,

Andrew
A photo of the bottom of one end:
IMG_1416.jpg
The bogie has pivoting side frames to keep the wheels in contact with the rail. You can see the heads of the pivot bolts going into the stretcher. The bogie is pivoted on a ball race made from 1mm diameter loose balls. A plate on the underside of the coach and a plate on the top of the stretcher form the bearing surfaces for the balls to run on. The coupling ends in a thin brass strip which has equally spaced holes 1.5mm diameter to retain the balls. The other end just has 2 balls in it so that the second bogie can rock from side to side (a small amount anyway). I thought with such a long wheelbase it needed compensation or it would be forever derailing. It stays on the track perfectly.

Printing of the sides continues:
IMG_1417.jpg
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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by philipy » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:31 pm

Those coach sides are looking well. Can't wait to see more.

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by -steves- » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:07 pm

Also think it looks fantastic and so looking forward to seeing more of this as it progresses :thumbup:
The buck stops here .......

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Andrew » Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:13 am

Many thanks for the bogie/coupling info - plenty for me to think about and learn from there!

All the best,

Andrew.

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:37 pm

I have managed to move forward with this - although there are plenty of domestic chores taking priority!

Both sides and ends are now printed and I have been experimenting with the doors. I was taken by the idea of printing the "third Class" etc onto the doors as they printed.

So I have tried it on both the filament and the resin printer and the results are here:
IMG_1465.jpg
There are two (really three) things to say about them. Firstly you can see the black doors which are from the resin printer, and while the words are clear (readable) on these there are parts of the letters which just have not printed. The grey ones are from the filament printer and the letters are complete (but a bit thicker) and less readable than the computer generated text. Note how there is a difference in the way the framing has printed out. In the grey ones the bottom and top framework is the same width as that on the sides (as per the Cad file). On the black ones the top and bottom are significantly narrower. Perhaps less importantly the black ones have a better surface finish, but are less level where I have failed to wash the surplus resin off the door before the UV got to it.

As far as the text goes I think the issue is the font I have been using - Times New Roman - which seems more "Victorian" with its thick and thin lines and its serifs. The issue seems to be that the thin parts are too thin to print in text this small. Well that is all I can think it could be, and repeating it with bigger text did improve things slightly (compare the 2 black doors). I had a similar issue with the makers plates for Welsh Pony.

So I think I will stick with the filament printed doors!

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Tingewickmax » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:53 am

Interesting to see the construction method forced on you by the 3D printer's constrained bed size. It reminds me of the "modular" construction method used in the Garden Railway Specialist L&B and associated freelance 16 mm scale coach kits some years ago.These kits were of mainly polystyrene material, both molded and sheet, construction. The separate, 6/7 but mostly common, side panel sections that made up individual coach sides were mounted in-line onto a clear polystyrene sided box (that formed the glazing and base unit for the coach). The odd different/altered panels could be made by cutting a sections off a standard panel, e.g. a glazing bar, or inserting one of the alternate vac formed panel supplied. e.g. duckets. A clever idea to avoid having to make expensive full size injection molding tooling for each of the different coach sides elements required for the 3 types represented in a typical consist. Max

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Re: Festiniog Railway Coaches 15 and 16

Post by Trevor Thompson » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:20 pm

Max

Very interesting - I had heard the concept of printing coaches compartment by compartment - but have never seen anything that I was able to identify as made this way. The idea of using a transparent box to mount the panels on is clever.

My concern in using this sort of technique is the danger of the joins being obvious in the finished coach. Which of course in my case will be under the doors (mostly)

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