A tale of two Brunels!

A very popular starting point for Live Steam. With their low cost comes a number of problems which can be discussed here
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Chris Cairns
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Post by Chris Cairns » Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:31 am

Bill/Rubery wrote: I cannot understand what this will achieve....
To lower the Centre of Gravity. When I ran my Brunel I had to keep the engine block on the inside of the curves so it was less likely to tip over at speed.

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Post by Bill/Rubery » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:32 am

EEEERRRrrr, Chris, The lowered engine block on my Brunel is about a quarter of a inch at the most! I cannot see that little bit of 'lowering' making much difference. I can tell what will though...the weighty white metal buffers I am fitting right now to the buffer beams that all of my locomotive's have fitted. I think I will try to make the locomotive a sort of Sentinel type of VB engine as they looked really 'differant' and freelance!
Regards, Bill/Rubery

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Post by Chris Cairns » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:01 pm

Bill,

As Mike posted above your Brunel Mark II has, for whatever reason, the cylinder mounted higher than the Mark II chassis that Mike was provided with to upgrade his Mark I.

Mamod posted photos of their Mark II with the brass gears and lowered cylinder here - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater Click Next top right above the photo as there are a total of 6 photos posted there.

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Post by mikewakefielduk@btinterne » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:33 am

With the change to the gearing the Brunel will be much slower and so less likely to tip over on curves. Changing the buffer beams to white metal will lower the centre of gravity but won't help the side-to-side weight distribution. For that you need to place counter weights under the frames on the opposite side to the cylinder. I used steel blocks but lead would be better.

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Post by funandtrains » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:26 pm

I wonder way they went for the high mounted fixed cylinder and flywheel combination the first place as I would of thought that using two of the standard oscillating cylinders to make a lower level vertical steam motor would of bean a better option.
Cheers, Steve

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Post by mikewakefielduk@btinterne » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:34 pm

I imagine there's a number of reasons Mamod didn't opt for twin oscillators but I would hazard a guess and say the most likely is they want to break into the Garden Rail market. Unfortunately many of the Garden Rail community consider oscillators as toys as they're not remotely prototypical. If Mamod want to be taken seriously as manufacturers of Garden Rail they've got to produce locos that are of the right scale and have either piston or slide valves. Its not a view I share but its very common.

After developing the Brunel Mamod went on to designing the Telford. Unfortunately they had serious difficulties with the original piston valve cylinders and so, after many months of effort, reverted to oscillators and reduced both the overall height of the loco and the price. It will be interesting to see how well it sells.

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Post by Bill/Rubery » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:38 pm

Hello Chris, Many thanks for the link to those photo's of the new Brunel. After looking at them I find to my horror that my supposed improved Brunel cylinders are the same height as my old Brunel ones!! The steam feed pipe that is flat on the pictures on that link is STEPPED UP with with a bend on mine....in fact my cylinders are about 3 mm higher than my old Brunel....Looks like a visit to Warley is looming....Hardly Roundhouse style service is it?!
Regards, Bill/Rubery

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Post by Vallon. » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:43 am

Chris Cairns:101816 wrote:Bill,

As Mike posted above your Brunel Mark II has, for whatever reason, the cylinder mounted higher than the Mark II chassis that Mike was provided with to upgrade his Mark I.

Mamod posted photos of their Mark II with the brass gears and lowered cylinder here - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater Click Next top right above the photo as there are a total of 6 photos posted there.

Chris Cairns
Thanks for the link. Interesting photos.The Mamod Brunel MkII looks better than the old MkI.
See you soon !

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Post by Bill/Rubery » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:16 am

Hello, When I received my new Mark 2 Brunel I was doing work on my brothers new bungalow and the locomotive remained un-examined in its delivery box. Now having the time to look at the engine I find strange things...The black engine support is part of the side frames....right?? Mamod appear to have used a old Mark one frame to make up my purchase. Looking at the 'Facebook' pictures on that link below I can see I have the new engine but in the old higher position...The gear material looks different as well. I don't know what's going on here...... Maybe its because I specified wanting a Mark Two Brunel, (this information is clearly stated on my invoice) maybe Mamod are acting up???
Regards, Bill/Rubery

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Post by mikewakefielduk@btinterne » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:21 am

I really wouldn't be too concerned if your loco is slightly different to the pictures on Facebook. Mamod are constantly making minor changes. For example my Brunel, which I bought in 2012, has an identical regulator fitting as the gas control valve. When I asked why it wasn't the same as in the photographs I was told it was what they happened to have got available at the time. I'm fine with that so long as it works.

Compared with the Mk1 and Mk11 horizontal boilered locos, Mamod haven't manufactured all that many Brunels (I estimate between 50 and 80 per year). To me that suggests there isn't the turnover of Brunels to justify holding a large stock of ready-to-sell locos, so instead they assemble them to order.

As for your new Brunel, Mamod can't have used the old frames with the new gearing as the position of the middle axle is different. So as to why your cylinder is a few mm higher I can't say for sure but its probably like I said above, its what parts they have available at the time the order comes in. If you look closely you'll notice the cylinder support and the side frame are two separate pieces of steel pop-riveted together.

As for using steel cogs rather than brass, again I don't think the material matters. Just make sure you put a drop of lubricating oil on them.

Mike

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Post by Bill/Rubery » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:25 am

A visit to the Mamod factory with my strange hybrid Brunel where I was told.... 'You were not supposed to recieve THAT' ...but I had. The nice chap with the glasses I have seen before picked another 'Brunel' out of a bin of made Brunel's and there was the new 'Jakarna' waiting me. We waited half a hour for bits to be added to the engine and off we drove. Here is a picture of my Mark 2 engine with one of the crew posing
Image
Regards, Bill/Rubery

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Post by kandnwlr » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:45 pm

Bill/Rubery:101906 wrote:A visit to the Mamod factory with my strange hybrid Brunel  where I was told.... 'You were not supposed to recieve THAT' ...but I had. The nice chap with the glasses I have seen before picked another 'Brunel' out of a bin of made Brunel's and there was the new 'Jakarna'  waiting me. We waited half a hour for bits to be added to the engine and off we drove. Here is a picture of my Mark 2 engine with one of the crew posing

And how was the drive? Thinking about getting one .... :D

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Post by Bill/Rubery » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:02 pm

The drive? I live about 45 minutes from the factory.
Regards, Bill/Rubery

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Post by mikewakefielduk@btinterne » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:52 pm

and here's my Brunel out in the sunshine today.

http://youtu.be/9SiU6hr_P2c

The gearing is great as it now doesn't race on the downhill stretch and still makes it uphill, all without manual intervention.

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Post by Bill/Rubery » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:39 am

That's a nice video there Mike. Your line is just right....off the ground and not cluttered with endless building like one see's on so many lines!....neat garden as well....not scruffy like so many others! Who's this 'Great Man' you mention??!
Regards, Bill/Rubery

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