Ace Engineering Works Mamod SL3 'Northern Monkey'

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Ace Engineering Works Mamod SL3 'Northern Monkey'

Post by ace » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:57 pm

Hi Guys,

Whilst I was at Pauly's Woodrow Light Railway on 3.11.13, we struck a deal with his failing SL3 that he has previously posted about.

See here:

http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about7196.html

In that thread there is a couple of videos that show the poor little blighter trying her hardest to do good, but not being able to actually turn her wheels.

Anyway, back to now.

Basically when I got her, Pauly had taken off the cylinders and a couple of other parts and that is how I got her. She isn't in 'brand new condition' and never will be. So I decided to get going in troubleshooting the initial faults and sort out the mish mash of fitting that seemed to be around on her.

Here a couple of shots as received.

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She didn't have a rear beam plate, so I found one in my spare box and fitted one.

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Removed the ridiculously long screws in the side of the boiler.

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I broke off the chimney by accident, not realising it was glued on.

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The dart was nut and bolted on.

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Now to the first problem, I decided whilst I had the front end apart to re face the reverser block and cylinder port faces, for a giggle. I found this blob of solder in there, why it is there escapes me.

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I had to grind it out with the dremel to clear the rev block channels. I didn't image this but the port blocks and the cylinder port holes were lined with solder too. I doubt very much that this loco has ever worked since this problem. Boiled dry? Maybe, more to come.

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Re faced

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Smoke box dart riveted on.

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Smoke box riveted back on

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I then popped in a alcohol burner spacer for an........ alcohol burner

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Here we are on test! Running at last! :)

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So today, I had a little time this afternoon so I fired up the SL3 in the garden. She ran well!

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Here she is nose on nose with Silver Warriors, Warrior.

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A very short video has been done, editing it is under way so I will post shortly. I decided to name her 'Northern Monkey' as she came from Pauly in Middlesbrough and because she gave us both the run around. I think it fits well. :)

Pauly, she has gone to a good home and is earning her keep here. :)

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Post by Chris Cairns » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:31 pm

Brilliant Ace.

Good to read that it was a relatively painless fix and lives to steam again.

Boiler run dry - is that some solder on the top of the horizontal wing of the combustion chamber just below the back plate sight glass cut-out?

And is that another open wagon being brought back into service again - just needs a wee touch up?

Chris Cairns.

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Post by ace » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:10 pm

Chris Cairns:91528 wrote:Brilliant Ace.

Good to read that it was a relatively painless fix and lives to steam again.

Boiler run dry - is that some solder on the top of the horizontal wing of the combustion chamber just below the back plate sight glass cut-out?

And is that another open wagon being brought back into service again - just needs a wee touch up?

Chris Cairns.
Hi Chris,

Yes the fix was easy enough, you were saying the other day you wondered where some locos had gone..... well your answer. :)

No the muck below the back head is a combination of rust and flaky paint. The sight glass was weeping a little so I suspectit has been for a long time. I renewed it as a matter of course and the glass has a really deep impression of the o ring in it, so hot it has got! :(

Yes the wagon may be in for a small touch up, I am undecided what to do with it. Ill pop a thread on this forum, I'd appreciate your opinion there.

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Post by ace » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:53 pm

Here we go then, a quick video.

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Post by ace » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:37 am

Right, a small update. Since getting this loco I have been doing a shake down of it so I know the faults and quirks of which I have found most. For my sins I was having a bit of fun with Northern Monkey by making it pull all my mamod rolling stock in one go. That consists of two vans, five coaches, four wagons and a guards van. I wished I had some footage of it because she was pulling very well! :shock:

Then I started to run into some troubles. A bad clanking sound started to appear and I noticed after a cool down and inspection I had made the crank pins on the main drive wheels loose. :( DAM! :(

So we have now started the second rebuild of Northern Monkey, this time the rolling chassis needed some attention. I started by stripping off the body and boiler in one lump and getting the chassis totally separate. I removed the cylinders and found that all the extra heat going through them had stripped the factory paint off and was starting to block the port holes. :roll: I wished I had painted these in the first place!

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So as per my usual rebuild specification I stripped the paint off the frames ready to paint in VHT black paint.

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I then started to rebuild the chassis using my troublesome Dream steam 'holed' wheels. These wheels have a lot of bad feeling by me, but they are no good sat around doing nothing. This set is a replacement set that was sent to me eventually after a badly quartered set that went back.

See my woes here:

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about65136.html

and here:

http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about7922.html

So this is the alleged checked wheel set that I received back. That had loose wheels.

I decided not to send them back again after the absolute ballache it was the last time, so I fixed them myself.

I assembled the chassis up as it was unpainted and fitted some of Roy Woods coupling rods (because the brass ones were warn out) so I could fix them in situ to check the quartering as I went.

Here is the chassis assembled with the loose wheels twisted into the correct positions prior to re fixing.

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I then drilled a small hole in between the wheel and the axle ready for a small pin.

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Soldered into position.

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After soldering the wheel pins in I tried the wheels on a test track and the crank pins fell out, sadly I have no pictures of this. I just cannot believe the problems with this set of bloody wheels!

I promptly soldered these in too. It did make a bit of a mess of the zinc coating, but that is the least of my worries now! :roll:

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Whilst I am in here I am going to enlarge the port holes so they match the reverser, they are slightly obscured by the frames.

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I am just preying that these wheels hold together, I am never going to buy any again! If anyone reads this and is thinking they might try, don't. Go to Roy Wood and spend a little more on a decent set.

See here: http://www.roywoodmodels.co.uk/

So for tonight's update, I should be able to get some paint on the new rods and wheels. The idea is to try and maintain the original look of this loco. So red wheels and gold coupling rods for this one. :)

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Post by Chris Cairns » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:17 pm

Ouch! That will teach you for trying to prove that Mamod's do not have huge pulling power.

Will there be no end to the saga of these Dream Steam wheels - you really could not make up such a story. My tool of choice is Loctite 603 which works well on loose wheels & crank pins.

That chassis paint stripping is really annoying. Both the 1980's Mamod and the current Mamod did/do not use primer first and neither painted their chassis's with heat resistant paint. The 'J' family of oscillators have better chassis frames, both thicker and well painted.

Chris Cairns.

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Post by ace » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:00 pm

Chris Cairns:91786 wrote:Ouch! That will teach you for trying to prove that Mamod's do not have huge pulling power.
I know, I just like making them work hard. :roll: I want to see where the line is when it comes to how much a standard SL model can take.
Chris Cairns:91786 wrote:Will there be no end to the saga of these Dream Steam wheels - you really could not make up such a story. My tool of choice is Loctite 603 which works well on loose wheels & crank pins.
Sadly I did not have any 603 on hand last night so I just resorted to soft soldering. If I could have repaired the old wheels effectively I would have, but sadly the crank pins had cracked the wheels where they had been wobbling so much. :(
Chris Cairns:91786 wrote:That chassis paint stripping is really annoying. Both the 1980's Mamod and the current Mamod did/do not use primer first and neither painted their chassis's with heat resistant paint. The 'J' family of oscillators have better chassis frames, both thicker and well painted.
I have never seen one like this before with self removing paint. What sort of period could this be pointed to? Also what is a 'J' series cylinder?

Oddly enough there was very little corrosion on the frames even with the flaking paint. I think it way my hard working of the model that caused the problem. I can understand why they don't use primer under vht paint, partly because the primer is not heat proof. I use BBQ paint and does not require primer, I have not had one rust out on me yet. :)

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:35 pm

I think Chris is referring to the jane's and janets ace.

And I commend your bravery for buying and dealing with dreamsteam. I agree with you about Roy woods services and how they just obliterate dreamsteams.

I hope Roy wood becomes more better known throughout the 16mm world as at elsecar it seemed people were unaware of the problems dreamsteam currently have with quality and customer service.
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http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about6685.html

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Post by ace » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:42 pm

Lner fan Sam:91802 wrote:at elsecar it seemed people were unaware of the problems dreamsteam currently have with quality and customer service.
Thanks for the input Sam. That is why I made the threads shown in the post above so people can see what pain I and others have been through. :roll: Once bitten twice as shy......

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Post by dougrail » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:08 pm

By "J series" I think Chris means the Janets. :) Hmm, 'J series'...adds a bit of kick to the title / parts desc, no? ;)

I have gambled a steel wheel axleworth on DS. All I can say is if it fails, God help them, as it is for a prestigious engine and project. :evil:

I would prefer Roy to be well known as indeed, his service and products are fast becoming hallmarks - those who know from my "New Toys" thread over on the MF saw me fit a set of his J-series cylinders to Swordbreaker and turned it into a greyhound!

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Post by Chris Cairns » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:50 pm

My personal view, and I respect that others can have different views and not agree with my view, is that when the word Mamod is mentioned, whether it be included as Mamod - type or Mamod - gene or whatever, the lesser knowledgeable listener often applies the tar brush of a camel dung burning 0.7 Bar locomotive that cannot pull the skin off your rice pudding and leaks steam everywhere, and dismisses them as a serious contender accordingly.

The mechanically superior locomotives that have been developed out of the Mamod SL all coincidently have names starting with a 'J' - IP Jane, PPS Jenny, PPS Janet & RWM Janet - hence my naming them the 'J' family (it is not the cylinders I'm referring to as they are/can be different , but rather the locomotives).

Chris Cairns.

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Post by ace » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:18 pm

Chris Cairns:91808 wrote:My personal view, and I respect that others can have different views and not agree with my view, is that when the word Mamod is mentioned, whether it be included as Mamod - type or Mamod - gene or whatever, the lesser knowledgeable listener often applies the tar brush of a camel dung burning 0.7 Bar locomotive that cannot pull the skin off your rice pudding and leaks steam everywhere, and dismisses them as a serious contender accordingly.

The mechanically superior locomotives that have been developed out of the Mamod SL all coincidently have names starting with a 'J' - IP Jane, PPS Jenny, PPS Janet & RWM Janet - hence my naming them the 'J' family (it is not the cylinders I'm referring to as they are/can be different , but rather the locomotives).

Chris Cairns.
True Chris, I concur. Maybe I should apply your method in thinking this way. The J series totally out ways the standard SL or MSS in every way possible. The only thing for me that ties the two together is the plausibility of swapping some parts that fit almost exactly as the lesser counterpart. Otherwise a totally different model. Good point well put!

But all the same it was fun trying to get this standard SL  to pull lots more than it should. Credit where it is due, this one is quite strong. :) and prior to my intervention this last couple of evenings, no fiddling was done at all. Just a meths burner was fitted!

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:41 pm

Back in march when I had just started out in 16mm I told my local group leader about me and my mss kit loco I was building. He told me that I should sell my kit loco and buy a roundhouse engine.

What kind of encouragement is that!?
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Post by ace » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:27 pm

dougrail:91806 wrote:I have gambled a steel wheel axleworth on DS. All I can say is if it fails, God help them, as it is for a prestigious engine and project.  :evil:
I cannot imagine how you feel about your prestigious project. I don't think they are worthy of fitting to a near on stock loco at all!

Right then, this evening I have a result to report.

Lets kick off with the assembly.

I first ground out the port holes with my dremel to allow them to be more free flowing. I did do the gasket also to match.

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I then painted the wheels in a similar colour as the original.

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Painted and assembled the rolling chassis. Coupling rods are Roy Wood Janet ones. Much thicker and precision made to the exact size for these wheels, after I re quartered them.

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And then threw the chassis under the body.

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Northern Monkey doesn't look too bad at all. :)

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And now for a little test.

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I did have a little play with the port blocks and have found a beautiful combination for slow running. I had it working on test quite well, so I will see what I can do for STWWW tomorrow (on MamodForums). :)

I have finally fallen upon some level ground with myself now. In my collection I have plenty of near standard locos. This one I think I am going to modify but try and maintain its original looks. I do hope these wheels don't take away too much of that. :roll:

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Post by Chris Cairns » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:01 am

Looking good Ace.

Have you fitted the RWM coupling rods with washers? I did not get any with mine, and I've noticed the similar IP Eng coupling rods suffer from those e-clips scoring the coupling rods, so as I could not get any of the old thin Mamod SL washers (the current MSS ones are a different material & thicker) I've used some nylon washers (M3 I think).

Chris Cairns.

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