Dream Steam, why I never want to use them again

A very popular starting point for Live Steam. With their low cost comes a number of problems which can be discussed here
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Chris Cairns
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Post by Chris Cairns » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:13 pm

Never bought a Dream Steam boiler direct (got mine 2nd hand off eBay) - do they actually issue a boiler certificate?

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:35 pm

Yeah I think so Paul said they come with one at elsecar.
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Post by dougrail » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:43 pm

From memory, in correspondence with Alan at PPS when I was shopping, I seme to recall that PPS boilers were also tested to double working pressure.

However, PPS on their website and in several old editions of Garden Rail also advertised their Janets and boilers as designed for 65psi running. Their pressure gauge is up to 80psi.

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Post by Chris Cairns » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:18 pm

We've had a similar discussion on these various Mamodification manufacturer pressure standards before and Sam's quoted scenario helps to perhaps highlight the mix & match with fittings that goes on with the 2nd hand market.

Whilst we are agreed that the 1/4" x 26BSF fittings are only fit for use in soft soldered brass boilers up to 25PSI, we have 2 different standards for the 1/4" x 40ME fittings. So if they do not come with a certificate how do you know its origin (IP Eng, PPS, Dream Steam, RWM, Mike Chaney plus others) and thus what pressure setting it should be used at?

In the case of boilers my Mike Chaney boiler is stamped 50PSI, there are no markings on my PPS 4 insert boiler, and I do not recall any markings on the Dream steam boiler (sold on to a new owner).

Wish I had the machinery & skills to produce banjo bolt fittings & syphon tubes - would make fitting a pressure gauge for testing purposes to every locomotive more practical.

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:28 pm

I believe rwm boilers are marked and at elsecar I saw the ever present CE mark on the dreamsteam boilers.
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Post by Superbiker_uk » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:09 am

IP Engineering boilers are stickered as IP Engineering and hand engraved with unique serial number. I have never seen specific boiler certificate paper work for an IP boiler.

Older DS boilers (made by Alan?) did not have any markings or serial numbers and of the ones I purchased from Alan under his ownership were not supplied to me with certificates. I have not bought any of the 'new batch' from Paul.

RWM boilers are stamped with unique numbers and come with a full boiler certificate with 12 month validity from the makers "Western Steam Model Engineers" and are hydrostatically tested to 5.5 bar.g 80 psi.g for a working max pressure of 2.75 bar.g 40 psi.g

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Post by dougrail » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:35 am

PPS boilers were stamped - mine has 'PPS74' on the back of mine.

As for RWM/WS now only testing to 80psi for 40psi running? Dude, downrating :shock:

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Post by Chris Cairns » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:46 pm

It is interesting to read the various standards applied to boiler certification.

AFAIK IP Engineering supplied 3 different versions of their boilers. My early IP Jane (Cranfield address) has the sight glass fitting where there is no screwed blanking plug on the top (which is annoying as the sight glass is not working due to be plugged up with steam oil - not looking forward to removing the glass tube without breaking it), and the water filler valve insert is further back on the boiler than the later models. My other IP Jane has a stove enamel painted boiler which I was told were made by Cheddar Models. Of course Cheddar Models ceased trading so IP Eng had to source a new manufacturer prior to selling their remaining stock to Alan Dunster to become the original & best Dream Steam.

Alan told me that his boilers were made by the same manufacturer as the later IP Eng ones and as they were made by a former employee of Cheddar Models they were built to the same standard. However they were not stove enamel painted (it was easy to chip their paint when sliding into a combustion chamber) and the regulator turret housing and sight glass tube pipework had slight differences when looked at close up.
dougrail wrote:PPS boilers were stamped
Just had another look at my PPS boiler with a mirror and it does look if there is something stamped on the rear but it is unreadable as I used a rather thick high temperature exhaust paint (PPS boilers were supplied unpainted).

Chris Cairns.

(edited to move Mamod pressure running comment over to the other Topic)
Last edited by Chris Cairns on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Superbiker_uk » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:25 pm

I have had 2 IP boilers - one stove enamelled and one not. The last one I bought was from Roy at RWM - posibly the last new one in existance at the time - he found it in the stock he aquired from PPS so I grabbed the chance at getting it (£100). This one is engraved with a serial number (that I can't remember) and was fully boxed and stickered as an IPE product - no boiler cert though. It now resides as the boiler for the 0-6-0 Ruth Ann.

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:08 pm

The RWM boilers come with a 12 month certificate of valdility so does that mean that one should test the boiler annually?
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Post by Chris Cairns » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:31 pm

No.

As these boilers are under the 3 Bar limit they are not required to be tested for coverage under the 16mm NGM Insurance. However you may come across some MES's who insist on a valid boiler certificate to run on their premises. This has been a lot of discussions on-line and the general feeling is to walk away from these MES's, and when they no longer have visitors they might actually adopt the more practical standard that the 16mm NGM, Gauge One Association and others currently follow.

As posted above all the details, recommendations & links are available for reading here - http://www.16mm.org.uk/newsite/insurance/default.html

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:33 pm

Ah thank you Chris.
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Post by BEYNAK » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:09 am

Hello there!
I ordered a MSS Mamod Enhancements (Multi-Level Links & Buffer Beams) last Thursday.
I got it this morning in a perfect shape ! :D  :D  :D

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Post by BEYNAK » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:24 am

This is the Dream Steam answer. I got it this morning:

"Thank you for brining this to my attention. I am aware of the issue raised by Mark, the individual quoting my emails to the forum, and we took on board his comments while dealing with his issues. The wheels in question were from the September 2013 batch (of 400 units), to date 80 units have been sold and as of this morning, issues directly reported to us can be counted on one hand and each has been handled by me directly, so unless everyone is not reporting issues we are looking at a small but notable issue with this product.

Forums are a great place to share information but they also do bread ‘chatter’ that at times puts an unfair skew on a situation. We take great care and pride in our service and products, but like any companies we can’t get it right 100% of the time, however when we do get it wrong we are the first to stand up and say so, taking control of the issue at our expense until resolved. On that note, I have taken on board the fact the current process DOES have a margin of possible error and as of today I have discontinued the current steel wheel products and now working with Newlands Engeineering (our CNC partner) on a new set of CNC programs where the quartering and gauging is set by keys and shoulders on the CNCed axle and therefore removing the ‘human’ element and assuring we have 100% quality rate again. This new design will go to Newlands Engineering (http://www.precision-engineering.co.uk) in January and should be available from us from February, I will also be contacting the affected customers (including Mark) and issuing them with new sets at our cost. Finally to show we are being as transparent as possible about this issue I have added a recall notice to our we site explaining the situation and inviting others to contact us if they are having issues.

The remaining 320 units of wheels (less the axles) are likely to be offered in packs on our website where by they can be used as detailing such as wagon loads as they will not be compatible with the new axle design.

I noted on this thread the discussion moved on to boilers.

The issues around hand quartering of wheels clearly has little to do with boilers, but for the record our boilers are rated to run at 40 to 45 psi and the gauge indicates up to 50 psi. The boilers are of silver soldered construction and made for us by Tim at Cheddar Vally Steam, he has been making boilers for over 25 year and therefore we hold great trust and respect in is skills (http://www.cheddarvalleysteam.co.uk). On taking delivery of a batch of boilers from C.V.S. we pressure test them at 100psi (2.5 times normal operating pressure) before painting, adding the fittings and shipping.

I hope this helps to not only set the record straight but to also show that although we can’t alway be 100% perfect we DO take customer satisfaction, safety and product quality VERY seriously and partnering with Chedder Valley and the ISO 9000 approved Newland Engineering are key elements in delivering this commitment.

Please feel free to pass this email to the forum in question as the last thing we want is unhappy customers.

Kind Regards, Paul.
Dream Steam Ltd."

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Post by Big Al » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:57 pm

Well done BEYNAK a good post well done Paul at dream steam for a good honest reply, Hope your business goes from strength to strength.
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Post by LnBmad » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:36 pm

Big Al:93464 wrote:Well done BEYNAK a good post well done Paul at dream steam for a good honest reply, Hope your business goes from strength to strength.
Cannot agree more to this!
If it can be made full scale it can be made 16mm

My line: http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about7200.html

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Post by BEYNAK. » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:50 pm

Thanks folks !

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Post by BEYNAK. » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:59 pm

I also found it on Dream Steam website. Just in case...

"STEEL WHEELS - RECALL.

Note: This recall only relates to the DSW Upgraded Steel Wheels for MSS/Mamod offered in the Upgrade Parts section of this website.

It DOES NOT relate to MSS wheel sets in the MSS Spare Parts or Wheels fitted to MSS or Mamod Ready to run or kit products (including locos and rolling stock). These are NOT affected.

Due to a very small but increasing number of issues around quartering and gauging of the September 2013 batch of steel wheels (both plain and vented) Dream Steam has withdrawn these products however a new version is expected to be available February 2014 using shouldered and keyed Axles meaning both quartering and gauging are both set by the CNC machining process.

We will be directly contacting customers who have purchased the affected wheels from this website or over the phone and we suggest that anyone having issues with wheels purchased at Elsecar to contact us for free replacements."

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Post by BEYNAK. » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:57 am

The Dream Steam guys are very friendly and very helpful.
But , unfortunately, their website doesn't work for me.
Maybe my damn' computer hates live steam! :lol:
I tried to order a MSS loco but I can't. :evil:
I'm really unhappy because I like these cute little locos.
The Dream Steam prices for MSS are the best prices that I ever seen on the web.
So I deleted my account and I walked away...What a pity! :cry:

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Post by ace » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:54 pm

Hi guys,

I am really very sorry to tread on old ground (yet again), I just realised we were nearly half way through February and Paul at dream steam still hasn't contacted me at all, he has both my mobile number and my email address from previous communications. I am not surprised at this in the least because during my last little episode with them it was nearly always me that prompted a response from them.

I see the recall notice has come down from the front page of the website, so I presume the problem is now solved, or the idea has been shelved, no replacements (as quoted below) have been supplied and no contact from dream steam either (also as quoted below). I have set my junk filter to fully accept anything from dream steam, so no chances of a junked mail.

I also see that there is no mention of wheels at all on any of the pages apart from the 'Full Upgraded Parts Kit' of which is not in stock at the time of writing.
The Full Upgrade Parts Kit really takes your Mamod or MSS loco to it's full potential with our own silver soldered high pressure copper boiler running at 45 psi. The boiler comes with high pressure safety valve, water top-up valve and bottle, steam regulator, glass water gauge and pressure gauge. To generate the required extra heat the kit comes with a powerful ceramic gas burner complete with pipe, gas tank and refill adaptor. To make the most of this extra power this kit comes with our own machined brass Upgrade O Ring Cylinders and Displacement Lubricator with Steam Oil. Finally, to give a smooth and efficient transfer of power to the track, a set of our fine grade machined steel wheels (32mm only) are included.
What are these wheels, or has there been a typo? I would like to know.

Just for the record:
BEYNAK:93455 wrote:This is the Dream Steam answer. I got it this morning:

"Thank you for brining this to my attention. I am aware of the issue raised by Mark, the individual quoting my emails to the forum, and we took on board his comments while dealing with his issues. The wheels in question were from the September 2013 batch (of 400 units), to date 80 units have been sold and as of this morning, issues directly reported to us can be counted on one hand and each has been handled by me directly, so unless everyone is not reporting issues we are looking at a small but notable issue with this product.

Forums are a great place to share information but they also do bread ‘chatter’ that at times puts an unfair skew on a situation. We take great care and pride in our service and products, but like any companies we can’t get it right 100% of the time, however when we do get it wrong we are the first to stand up and say so, taking control of the issue at our expense until resolved. On that note, I have taken on board the fact the current process DOES have a margin of possible error and as of today I have discontinued the current steel wheel products and now working with Newlands Engeineering (our CNC partner) on a new set of CNC programs where the quartering and gauging is set by keys and shoulders on the CNCed axle and therefore removing the ‘human’ element and assuring we have 100% quality rate again. This new design will go to Newlands Engineering (http://www.precision-engineering.co.uk) in January and should be available from us from February, I will also be contacting the affected customers (including Mark) and issuing them with new sets at our cost. Finally to show we are being as transparent as possible about this issue I have added a recall notice to our we site explaining the situation and inviting others to contact us if they are having issues.

The remaining 320 units of wheels (less the axles) are likely to be offered in packs on our website where by they can be used as detailing such as wagon loads as they will not be compatible with the new axle design.

I noted on this thread the discussion moved on to boilers.

The issues around hand quartering of wheels clearly has little to do with boilers, but for the record our boilers are rated to run at 40 to 45 psi and the gauge indicates up to 50 psi. The boilers are of silver soldered construction and made for us by Tim at Cheddar Vally Steam, he has been making boilers for over 25 year and therefore we hold great trust and respect in is skills (http://www.cheddarvalleysteam.co.uk). On taking delivery of a batch of boilers from C.V.S. we pressure test them at 100psi (2.5 times normal operating pressure) before painting, adding the fittings and shipping.

I hope this helps to not only set the record straight but to also show that although we can’t alway be 100% perfect we DO take customer satisfaction, safety and product quality VERY seriously and partnering with Chedder Valley and the ISO 9000 approved Newland Engineering are key elements in delivering this commitment.

Please feel free to pass this email to the forum in question as the last thing we want is unhappy customers.

Kind Regards, Paul.
Dream Steam Ltd."
Anyway, the long and the short of it is I am going to try and make contact with dream steam and see if they will fulfil their promises above.

I know this subject is more than just long in the tooth, I just want to record what I have done in a easy to read place. :)

Wish me luck ;)
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