Dream Steam, why I never want to use them again

[Superbiker_uk]

IP Engineering boilers are stickered as IP Engineering and hand engraved with unique serial number. I have never seen specific boiler certificate paper work for an IP boiler.

Older DS boilers (made by Alan?) did not have any markings or serial numbers and of the ones I purchased from Alan under his ownership were not supplied to me with certificates. I have not bought any of the 'new batch' from Paul.

RWM boilers are stamped with unique numbers and come with a full boiler certificate with 12 month validity from the makers "Western Steam Model Engineers" and are hydrostatically tested to 5.5 bar.g 80 psi.g for a working max pressure of 2.75 bar.g 40 psi.g

[dougrail]

PPS boilers were stamped - mine has 'PPS74' on the back of mine.

As for RWM/WS now only testing to 80psi for 40psi running? Dude, downrating

[Chris Cairns]

It is interesting to read the various standards applied to boiler certification.

AFAIK IP Engineering supplied 3 different versions of their boilers. My early IP Jane (Cranfield address) has the sight glass fitting where there is no screwed blanking plug on the top (which is annoying as the sight glass is not working due to be plugged up with steam oil - not looking forward to removing the glass tube without breaking it), and the water filler valve insert is further back on the boiler than the later models. My other IP Jane has a stove enamel painted boiler which I was told were made by Cheddar Models. Of course Cheddar Models ceased trading so IP Eng had to source a new manufacturer prior to selling their remaining stock to Alan Dunster to become the original & best Dream Steam.

Alan told me that his boilers were made by the same manufacturer as the later IP Eng ones and as they were made by a former employee of Cheddar Models they were built to the same standard. However they were not stove enamel painted (it was easy to chip their paint when sliding into a combustion chamber) and the regulator turret housing and sight glass tube pipework had slight differences when looked at close up.

PPS boilers were stamped

Just had another look at my PPS boiler with a mirror and it does look if there is something stamped on the rear but it is unreadable as I used a rather thick high temperature exhaust paint (PPS boilers were supplied unpainted).

Chris Cairns.

(edited to move Mamod pressure running comment over to the other Topic)

[Superbiker_uk]

I have had 2 IP boilers - one stove enamelled and one not. The last one I bought was from Roy at RWM - posibly the last new one in existance at the time - he found it in the stock he aquired from PPS so I grabbed the chance at getting it (£100). This one is engraved with a serial number (that I can't remember) and was fully boxed and stickered as an IPE product - no boiler cert though. It now resides as the boiler for the 0-6-0 Ruth Ann.

[Lner fan Sam]

The RWM boilers come with a 12 month certificate of valdility so does that mean that one should test the boiler annually?

[Chris Cairns]

No.

As these boilers are under the 3 Bar limit they are not required to be tested for coverage under the 16mm NGM Insurance. However you may come across some MES's who insist on a valid boiler certificate to run on their premises. This has been a lot of discussions on-line and the general feeling is to walk away from these MES's, and when they no longer have visitors they might actually adopt the more practical standard that the 16mm NGM, Gauge One Association and others currently follow.

As posted above all the details, recommendations & links are available for reading here - http://www.16mm.org.uk/newsite/insurance/default.html

Chris Cairns.

[Lner fan Sam]

Ah thank you Chris.

[BEYNAK]

Hello there!
I ordered a MSS Mamod Enhancements (Multi-Level Links & Buffer Beams) last Thursday.
I got it this morning in a perfect shape !  :D  :D

[BEYNAK]

This is the Dream Steam answer. I got it this morning:

"Thank you for brining this to my attention. I am aware of the issue raised by Mark, the individual quoting my emails to the forum, and we took on board his comments while dealing with his issues. The wheels in question were from the September 2013 batch (of 400 units), to date 80 units have been sold and as of this morning, issues directly reported to us can be counted on one hand and each has been handled by me directly, so unless everyone is not reporting issues we are looking at a small but notable issue with this product.

Forums are a great place to share information but they also do bread ‘chatter’ that at times puts an unfair skew on a situation. We take great care and pride in our service and products, but like any companies we can’t get it right 100% of the time, however when we do get it wrong we are the first to stand up and say so, taking control of the issue at our expense until resolved. On that note, I have taken on board the fact the current process DOES have a margin of possible error and as of today I have discontinued the current steel wheel products and now working with Newlands Engeineering (our CNC partner) on a new set of CNC programs where the quartering and gauging is set by keys and shoulders on the CNCed axle and therefore removing the ‘human’ element and assuring we have 100% quality rate again. This new design will go to Newlands Engineering (http://www.precision-engineering.co.uk) in January and should be available from us from February, I will also be contacting the affected customers (including Mark) and issuing them with new sets at our cost. Finally to show we are being as transparent as possible about this issue I have added a recall notice to our we site explaining the situation and inviting others to contact us if they are having issues.

The remaining 320 units of wheels (less the axles) are likely to be offered in packs on our website where by they can be used as detailing such as wagon loads as they will not be compatible with the new axle design.

I noted on this thread the discussion moved on to boilers.

The issues around hand quartering of wheels clearly has little to do with boilers, but for the record our boilers are rated to run at 40 to 45 psi and the gauge indicates up to 50 psi. The boilers are of silver soldered construction and made for us by Tim at Cheddar Vally Steam, he has been making boilers for over 25 year and therefore we hold great trust and respect in is skills (http://www.cheddarvalleysteam.co.uk). On taking delivery of a batch of boilers from C.V.S. we pressure test them at 100psi (2.5 times normal operating pressure) before painting, adding the fittings and shipping.

I hope this helps to not only set the record straight but to also show that although we can’t alway be 100% perfect we DO take customer satisfaction, safety and product quality VERY seriously and partnering with Chedder Valley and the ISO 9000 approved Newland Engineering are key elements in delivering this commitment.

Please feel free to pass this email to the forum in question as the last thing we want is unhappy customers.

Kind Regards, Paul.
Dream Steam Ltd."

[Big Al]

Well done BEYNAK a good post well done Paul at dream steam for a good honest reply, Hope your business goes from strength to strength.

[LnBmad]

Well done BEYNAK a good post well done Paul at dream steam for a good honest reply, Hope your business goes from strength to strength.

Cannot agree more to this!

[BEYNAK.]

Thanks folks !

[BEYNAK.]

I also found it on Dream Steam website. Just in case...

"STEEL WHEELS - RECALL.

Note: This recall only relates to the DSW Upgraded Steel Wheels for MSS/Mamod offered in the Upgrade Parts section of this website.

It DOES NOT relate to MSS wheel sets in the MSS Spare Parts or Wheels fitted to MSS or Mamod Ready to run or kit products (including locos and rolling stock). These are NOT affected.

Due to a very small but increasing number of issues around quartering and gauging of the September 2013 batch of steel wheels (both plain and vented) Dream Steam has withdrawn these products however a new version is expected to be available February 2014 using shouldered and keyed Axles meaning both quartering and gauging are both set by the CNC machining process.

We will be directly contacting customers who have purchased the affected wheels from this website or over the phone and we suggest that anyone having issues with wheels purchased at Elsecar to contact us for free replacements."

[BEYNAK.]

The Dream Steam guys are very friendly and very helpful.
But , unfortunately, their website doesn't work for me.
Maybe my damn' computer hates live steam!
I tried to order a MSS loco but I can't.
I'm really unhappy because I like these cute little locos.
The Dream Steam prices for MSS are the best prices that I ever seen on the web.
So I deleted my account and I walked away...What a pity!

[ace]

Hi guys,

I am really very sorry to tread on old ground (yet again), I just realised we were nearly half way through February and Paul at dream steam still hasn't contacted me at all, he has both my mobile number and my email address from previous communications. I am not surprised at this in the least because during my last little episode with them it was nearly always me that prompted a response from them.

I see the recall notice has come down from the front page of the website, so I presume the problem is now solved, or the idea has been shelved, no replacements (as quoted below) have been supplied and no contact from dream steam either (also as quoted below). I have set my junk filter to fully accept anything from dream steam, so no chances of a junked mail.

I also see that there is no mention of wheels at all on any of the pages apart from the 'Full Upgraded Parts Kit' of which is not in stock at the time of writing.

The Full Upgrade Parts Kit really takes your Mamod or MSS loco to it's full potential with our own silver soldered high pressure copper boiler running at 45 psi. The boiler comes with high pressure safety valve, water top-up valve and bottle, steam regulator, glass water gauge and pressure gauge. To generate the required extra heat the kit comes with a powerful ceramic gas burner complete with pipe, gas tank and refill adaptor. To make the most of this extra power this kit comes with our own machined brass Upgrade O Ring Cylinders and Displacement Lubricator with Steam Oil. Finally, to give a smooth and efficient transfer of power to the track, a set of our fine grade machined steel wheels (32mm only) are included.

What are these wheels, or has there been a typo? I would like to know.

Just for the record:

This is the Dream Steam answer. I got it this morning:

"Thank you for brining this to my attention. I am aware of the issue raised by Mark, the individual quoting my emails to the forum, and we took on board his comments while dealing with his issues. The wheels in question were from the September 2013 batch (of 400 units), to date 80 units have been sold and as of this morning, issues directly reported to us can be counted on one hand and each has been handled by me directly, so unless everyone is not reporting issues we are looking at a small but notable issue with this product.

Forums are a great place to share information but they also do bread ‘chatter’ that at times puts an unfair skew on a situation. We take great care and pride in our service and products, but like any companies we can’t get it right 100% of the time, however when we do get it wrong we are the first to stand up and say so, taking control of the issue at our expense until resolved. On that note, I have taken on board the fact the current process DOES have a margin of possible error and as of today I have discontinued the current steel wheel products and now working with Newlands Engeineering (our CNC partner) on a new set of CNC programs where the quartering and gauging is set by keys and shoulders on the CNCed axle and therefore removing the ‘human’ element and assuring we have 100% quality rate again. This new design will go to Newlands Engineering (http://www.precision-engineering.co.uk) in January and should be available from us from February, I will also be contacting the affected customers (including Mark) and issuing them with new sets at our cost. Finally to show we are being as transparent as possible about this issue I have added a recall notice to our we site explaining the situation and inviting others to contact us if they are having issues.

The remaining 320 units of wheels (less the axles) are likely to be offered in packs on our website where by they can be used as detailing such as wagon loads as they will not be compatible with the new axle design.

I noted on this thread the discussion moved on to boilers.

The issues around hand quartering of wheels clearly has little to do with boilers, but for the record our boilers are rated to run at 40 to 45 psi and the gauge indicates up to 50 psi. The boilers are of silver soldered construction and made for us by Tim at Cheddar Vally Steam, he has been making boilers for over 25 year and therefore we hold great trust and respect in is skills (http://www.cheddarvalleysteam.co.uk). On taking delivery of a batch of boilers from C.V.S. we pressure test them at 100psi (2.5 times normal operating pressure) before painting, adding the fittings and shipping.

I hope this helps to not only set the record straight but to also show that although we can’t alway be 100% perfect we DO take customer satisfaction, safety and product quality VERY seriously and partnering with Chedder Valley and the ISO 9000 approved Newland Engineering are key elements in delivering this commitment.

Please feel free to pass this email to the forum in question as the last thing we want is unhappy customers.

Kind Regards, Paul.
Dream Steam Ltd."

Anyway, the long and the short of it is I am going to try and make contact with dream steam and see if they will fulfil their promises above.

I know this subject is more than just long in the tooth, I just want to record what I have done in a easy to read place.

Wish me luck

[Marquis DeCarabas]

Wish me luck

Forgive me for speaking rather bluntly, but unless I've completely misunderstood how you've presented the information 'Dream Steam' have done all the right things.

Now under the 'Sale of Goods Act' the legally defined term is 'a reasonable time' for returns - custom and practice within the retail industry is 28 days. A similar time applies for return communications.

I can't help but conclude that you're being needlessly impatient and expecting far more than you can reasonably be entitled to: in fact, I think your posts put Dream Steam in a far better light than you are trying to portray. [1]

I appreciate that this isn't really what you want to hear, but on the 'net everybody's got an opinion - I think you are being very unreasonable and actually quite passive/aggressive in badmouthing them in a place with no direct or easy right of reply. Yes, you are using their words, but it is the manner in which you are presenting their words that makes me think 'passive/aggressive'.

Standard disclaimer: I have no connection now or ever with 'Dream Steam'.

[1] there is a parallel with Altberg bike boots - for many, many years they offered a free repair service largely under the goodwill of the bikers. Sadly, due to a small number of people being very vocal and demanding far more than was ever expected and bad mouthing them in the press the free repair/recondition service was stopped inconveniencing a far greater number of people than those who thought they should have got more.

[ace]

Wish me luck

Forgive me for speaking rather bluntly, but unless I've completely misunderstood how you've presented the information 'Dream Steam' have done all the right things.

Now under the 'Sale of Goods Act' the legally defined term is 'a reasonable time' for returns - custom and practice within the retail industry is 28 days.  A similar time applies for return communications.

I can't help but conclude that you're being needlessly impatient and expecting far more than you can reasonably be entitled to: in fact, I think your posts put Dream Steam in a far better light than you are trying to portray.  [1]  

I appreciate that this isn't really what you want to hear, but on the 'net everybody's got an opinion - I think you are being very unreasonable and actually quite passive/aggressive in badmouthing them in a place with no direct or easy right of reply. Yes, you are using their words, but it is the manner in which you are presenting their words that makes me think 'passive/aggressive'.

Standard disclaimer: I have no connection now or ever with 'Dream Steam'.

[1] there is a parallel with Altberg bike boots - for many, many years they offered a free repair service largely under the goodwill of the bikers. Sadly, due to a small number of people being very vocal and demanding far more than was ever expected and bad mouthing them in the press the free repair/recondition service was stopped inconveniencing a far greater number of people than those who thought they should have got more.

I completely see what you are saying Marquis. I am not intending to be coming across as passive aggressive, in the first place I wanted to try and put a balanced view out there and now, in fact, I just want to get this problem right now. To me the 'bad feeling' is history and I am not a grudge holding kind of person. Maybe I was a little harsh previously with my presentation, but it is hard to not let ones emotions interfere with something so very annoying.

Dream steam were within the statutory 'reasonable amount of time' rights of 28 days. If this were communicated to me in the first place that this is the time to take, then I would have expected just that. My problem (if you read and digest my emails as detailed previously) is that they make a promise to do something, several times, and it isn't done. Then there is no response or communication to explain why and I am forced to prompt one. Rights or no rights, if you say something you should deliver on it. It then becomes a matter of principle overall and the customer (ie me) looses faith in what is said. Then how can anyone bring themselves to believe what is said based on previous experience.

Sometimes it is best to tell someone something even if it isn't good news rather than stay silent and leave that person to wonder.

[Marquis DeCarabas]

Dream steam were within the statutory 'reasonable amount of time' rights of 28 days. If this were communicated to me in the first place that this is the time to take, then I would have expected just that. My problem (if you read and digest my emails as detailed previously) is that they make a promise to do something, several times, and it isn't done. Then there is no response or communication to explain why and I am forced to prompt one. Rights or no rights, if you say something you should deliver on it. It then becomes a matter of principle overall and the customer (ie me) looses faith in what is said. Then how can anyone bring themselves to believe what is said based on previous experience.

Can I suggest you read this guide to the Sale of Goods Act LINK - that might make things clearer in your mind and understand the actions.

Sometimes it is best to tell someone something even if it isn't good news rather than stay silent and leave that person to wonder.

I agree, but also sometimes (and I'm not specifically thinking of you in this case) people think that in the 16mm world they're dealling with a big firm that have lots of staff, more often than not in this line of modelling it is only a small firm or a sole trader and it is unfair to expect immediate and return communication.

I hope reading the SOGA guide allays any of your concerns in this matter.

[ace]

Can I suggest you read this guide to the Sale of Goods Act LINK - that might make things clearer in your mind and understand the actions.

Thanks for the link, but I think you have rather missed my point. I have read through my previous post that details the emails exchanged and I have added in two that I stated weren't relevant and subsequently not included. Within one of those emails I had a promise of replacement sets to be dispatched on a particular day. Like I said previously, my point is not down to consumer rights. It is down to the fact that dream steam said replacements were going to be dispatched and weren't.

people think that in the 16mm world they're dealling with a big firm that have lots of staff, more often than not in this line of modelling it is only a small firm or a sole trader and it is unfair to expect immediate and return

I do understand this entirely. I used to manage a very small high-street retail shop 10 years ago (only myself and one other below me). Most of our business was mail order. If I ever had a customer with a problem with something we had dispatched, a replacement or refund was issued immediately to save the customer from being inconvenienced. If the replacement item was not in stock, I told the customer. If the customer wanted a refund, I would refund, or if they were prepared to wait for a replacement I would advise them when we would expect to receive new stock and keep them updated. I would then (judging on the value of the item) make arrangements for collection of the faulty goods or if the customer was prepared, they could post them back to us and a refund on postage would be issued also. It is a matter of plain and simple customer service and not adhering to the consumer rights act to the letter.

Given that historically email communications with dream steam were always answered the same day, it is fair to assume that this level of communication is to continue (obviously only during working hours). Whether it be from one or another member of staff.

Combined with the empty promise of delivering replacement parts to me, the 'radio silence' from the supplier and unavailability of them on the phone without returning answer phone messages, I feel that if the boot were on the other foot anyone would be anxious and wonder what is going on. There is always the element of doubt in your mind when you read of another disgruntled customer who never actually received his replacement wheels at all. You can see why I was eager to stay on top of this.

[Marquis DeCarabas]

Can I suggest you read this guide to the Sale of Goods Act LINK - that might make things clearer in your mind and understand the actions.

Thanks for the link, but I think you have rather missed my point. I have read through my previous post that details the emails exchanged and I have added in two that I stated weren't relevant and subsequently not included. Within one of those emails I had a promise of replacement sets to be dispatched on a particular day.

I'm wary of prolonging this thread, but if you mean this text:

Sent: 08 October 2013 21:59
To: Mark Pengelley
Subject: Re: Form Submission: Contact Us

Hi Mark,

Yes making the most of the WiFi while it works…. That's put the kiss of death on it..

That's great I'm back on Friday so will take a look, I also what to check current stocks, so it will be Monday before I send out replacements as I clearly want to ensure what you get is good and correctly quartered stock.

Kind Regards, Paul.

Paul at DS isn't actually saying that the replacement wheelsets will be in the post on the Monday, he's saying that he would not have chance to check the stock fully and the Monday would be the soonest day he could send out replacement stock, but he does not actually state that your replacements would have been in the post on the Monday.

On that point (with respect) I'm not that sure I've missed the point and I would venture to suggest that you may and I stress may have read more into that email mentioning Monday than was intended.

I hope that makes sense. More than happy to agree to differ on that point though.