Blue Goblin, a basic repair turned into a full rebuild...

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ace
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Blue Goblin, a basic repair turned into a full rebuild...

Post by ace » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:22 pm

Well then. It all started with offering a little help to a fellow forum member and friend, Pauly. He was struggling to get the SL2 (formerly known as FROZEN DAWN) to go properly with some upgraded wheels that were proving to be very stiff.

See the original thread here:

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ftopi ... 0-asc-.php

Anyway, after my little tour of Elsecar and consequently a morning at Pauly's fantasic Woodrow Light Railway, he decided to let me have Blue Goblin for some basic works to get her rolling again. One quick look confirmed some horrible alterations to the loco that just couldn't stay as they were so I advised him there and then what I proposed to do before anything else.

So fast forwarding to when I got home and began the strip down.
pauly:900306 wrote:Yes she shall become like Flying Scotsman where nothing except the frames are original.
Well, as a previous statement in the thread mentioned above this was not to be true. The frames were 'modified' to accept, what I guess to be, a massive alcohol burner. What the point may be is beyond me, because the boiler is still the same size. I find a standard sized alcohol burner, correctly set up with nicely trimmed and carefully packed wicks to be ample. So because of the hacked about frames, I advised Pauly that this would be a good place to start when it comes to making a good chassis, some new frames.

Here are a few shots before my works began.

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Removal of bodywork

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Paint removal on all parts

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A little de rust soak

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Finished

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And the remaining parts

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The boiler had an old repair that was done. Sadly all this effort had been put together with soft solder. This was not going to last with a gas burner that Pauly had supplied.

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5 seconds later with a blow torch and it was out.

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So I cleaned up the affected areas and silver soldered the whole lot.

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Silver soldered some new bolts in

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After a little rub over with a scotchbrite

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No more melting for you my little beauty! :)

Here is the assembled rolling chassis on test next to Chevalier

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I then went about fitting some of superbikers wheel inserts.

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Unlike the inserts supplied to me by superbiker, these needed quite some work to get them to fit. Maybe the wheels have changed slightly over time.

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Some red coupling rods

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And black wheels

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Next was the basic steam test with no body work

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Now time for some painting on the body

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Not a perfect colour match, but not bad

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Assembled body, chassis and boiler

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Body assembly meets chassis

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Test,

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test on the line with a fully loaded brandbright 4 plank wagon

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All done!

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Ex Works

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A video is to come..... :)

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DolwyddelanLightRail
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Post by DolwyddelanLightRail » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:46 am

Nicely done that!

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:53 am

Ace, what would you recommend doing to stop the polished wheel rims and tyres of the driving wheels from getting rusty? On pioneer the wheels have started to slightly develop some surface rust...

Btw excellent work :D
my first live steam engine build thread:
http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about6685.html

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Post by ace » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:16 am

Thanks for the comments chaps
Lner fan Sam:91439 wrote:Ace, what would you recommend doing to stop the polished wheel rims and tyres of the driving wheels from getting rusty? On pioneer the wheels have started to slightly develop some surface rust...

Btw excellent work :D
It is difficult to say without seeing it. The best thing to do is to get it rubbed back quick and if you are going to keep them polished is to get them well oiled, or paint them in a clear lacquer. Failing that get them rubbed back an painted in the desired colour. :)

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Post by Bandit » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:43 am

Very great work ! :D :D :D

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Post by Chris Cairns » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:51 pm

Ace,

Many thanks for posting this comprehensive rebuild Topic. Recently we have had several "new" Mamods being initially discussed on here for advice, etc. but no follow ups and I was wondering what had happened to them including "Frozen Dawn" ( http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/ftop ... -asc-0.php ). Seems to be part of the problem is where most members are on both Forums, but the other Forum attracts more posting for whatever reason?

This SL2 has previously been fitted with a Kenversions Meths Burner hence the surgery at the cab end - http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about6210.html & http://www.16mm.org.uk/newsite/publicat ... ritage.pdf

The boiler is interesting. Is that the original boiler that was fitted to this loco because in Pauly's previous topic (Page 2) it had had the steam pipe soldered into the tube at the top and the dome insert was damaged? I've never seen the vertical tube through the boiler being replaced by that plug on the bottom and soldering in the steam pipe before.

It is interesting to see that you have riveted the boiler to the smoke box, and similarly re-riveted the bodywork. If I've had to de-rivet a loco to gain access for repair or maintenance I use 6BA screws & nuts to rebuild it (makes it easier for subsequent maintenance).

Excellent paint job. I really need to be taught on a one to one hands on basis how to paint properly as reading it as an answer to my enquiries is just not the same.

You have answered my question as to what the SL2 black arrester balloon is - it is just the brass fitting painted over. I've always wondered why the SL2 was never popular (originally aimed at the North American market) and it was deleted from the catalogue after only 2 short years, yet the SL3 with its brass arrester balloon proved very popular. Was it the SL2's blue bodywork colour that was unpopular?

Peter Jones wheel inserts - as Peter found when he was designing these there are big differences with the plain part of the steel wheels especially with sets from the same manufacturer. I have 2 sets to fit and the 1st set has needed a fair bit of sanding/filling to fit into a set of original Dream Steam wheels (probably old IP Eng stock).

I've watched your excellent record of the rebuild video on the other Forum. Looking forward to seeing this rebuilt loco in action at home on the WLR in due course.

Sam - Rusting of these plain steel wheels seems to be quite common and the only way to stop it is to seal the surfaces as Ace has already answered. Do not forget the back of the wheels - I have a set of IP Eng holed disk wheels were it was obvious they were stored damp with surface corrosion on the rear. Cleaned & treated the rust, primed then painted the rear of the wheels. I guess oiling the flanges will ultimately affect their traction so using clear lacquer would be better option.

Chris Cairns.

PS - Is there another instalment of the "Ballad of the SL3" to come? - http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about7196.html

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Post by ace » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:34 pm

Chris Cairns:91446 wrote:This SL2 has previously been fitted with a Kenversions Meths Burner hence the surgery at the cab end
Thanks for clearing this up, I was wondering what actually went in there. That burner is huge! it must run for hours.

Chris Cairns:91446 wrote:The boiler is interesting. Is that the original boiler that was fitted to this loco because in Pauly's previous topic (Page 2) it had had the steam pipe soldered into the tube at the top and the dome insert was damaged? I've never seen the vertical tube through the boiler being replaced by that plug on the bottom and soldering in the steam pipe before.
I don't think this is the original boiler. I understand that the original was put out to the scrap yard on the WLR. This repaired boiler was the one supplied with Blue Goblin (Frozen Dawn).
Chris Cairns:91446 wrote:It is interesting to see that you have riveted the boiler to the smoke box, and similarly re-riveted the bodywork. If I've had to de-rivet a loco to gain access for repair or maintenance I use 6BA screws & nuts to rebuild it (makes it easier for subsequent maintenance).
I use rivets because I find them easier to work with. From my experience, they are quicker to remove, quicker to install and do not work loose in normal conditions. I hate messing about with nuts and bolts, that annoys me more than using a drill and rivet gun.
Chris Cairns:91446 wrote:Excellent paint job. I really need to be taught on a one to one hands on basis how to paint properly as reading it as an answer to my enquiries is just not the same.
Thanks, working in a car body shop helps. I have access to decent paint and materials and good conditions to do it.
Chris Cairns:91446 wrote:You have answered my question as to what the SL2 black arrester balloon is - it is just the brass fitting painted over. I've always wondered why the SL2 was never popular (originally aimed at the North American market) and it was deleted from the catalogue after only 2 short years, yet the SL3 with its brass arrester balloon proved very popular. Was it the SL2's blue bodywork colour that was unpopular?
I know what you mean, I find the character of the SL2 quite charming. I like the baby blue paintwork. I cannot imagine that they would have ever made the stack out of anything other than brass, the cutting of a different material would just be too costly and complicated.
Chris Cairns:91446 wrote:Peter Jones wheel inserts - as Peter found when he was designing these there are big differences with the plain part of the steel wheels especially with sets from the same manufacturer. I have 2 sets to fit and the 1st set has needed a fair bit of sanding/filling to fit into a set of original Dream Steam wheels (probably old IP Eng stock).
There is no doubt that Peters wheel inserts are of a high quality and there is no way that he could ever make them fit all. If you notice these inserts have a larger hole in the centre that do not match the wheels, not that anyone would care. The wheels I have on another model, they fit perfectly, with minor work.

I too am looking forward to seeing Pauly run this little loco. It is a good runner but could do with a set of replacement cylinders as I had to disassemble these ones to tighten up the pressing on the piston to rod joint. Sadly they are past their best and do leak a little. But in the grand scheme of things that is a relatively minor problem.

I forgot to post the video, here it is.

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:12 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. Next question :D How do you remove and refit the c-clips with out damaging the paint on conrods.
my first live steam engine build thread:
http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about6685.html

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Post by ace » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:15 pm

Lner fan Sam:91449 wrote:Thanks for the advice guys. Next question :D How do you remove and refit the c-clips with out damaging the paint on conrods.
The short answer is carefully. I use a small flat headed screw driver. I put it into the gap between the crank pin and the c clip and twist it, slowly. Make sure you have a finger or a strong small magnet on it otherwise it will ping off to the unfindable place in the workshop.

If you have a washer between the side rod and the c clip, damaging it shouldn't really be a problem. :)

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Post by Chris Cairns » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:26 pm

Ace beat me to it.

I do exactly the same with a screw driver inserted into one of the 2 gaps in these e-clips.

As I recall the RWM coupling rods only come with e-clips (no washers).

Chris Cairns.

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Post by Chris Cairns » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:42 pm

Ace,

One other question. In your video you can see that the steam dome is leaking. Did you have to replace the seal there and if so what with? It is about the only original Mamod SL spare part that is no longer available, and it seems to me that MSS have slightly changed the profile of the dome boiler insert plus they have finished the original steam dome nut as the dome as well now so an 'O' ring there works OK. I tried fitting an 'O' ring on an old Mamod SL that had a leaking steam dome, but the 'O' ring got damaged by the steam dome nut/boiler insert so I had to punch a gasket out of some automotive gasket material I was given. This material is also thicker than the thinner original Mamod gasket, which must have contributed to all those domes that spin around in the boiler due to being overtightened trying to get a steam tight seal.

Chris Cairns.

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Post by ace » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:46 pm

Chris Cairns:91453 wrote:Ace,

One other question. In your video you can see that the steam dome is leaking. Did you have to replace the seal there and if so what with? It is about the only original Mamod SL spare part that is no longer available, and it seems to me that MSS have slightly changed the profile of the dome boiler insert plus they have finished the original steam dome nut as the dome as well now so an 'O' ring there works OK. I tried fitting an 'O' ring on an old Mamod SL that had a leaking steam dome, but the 'O' ring got damaged by the steam dome nut/boiler insert so I had to punch a gasket out of some automotive gasket material I was given. This material is also thicker than the thinner original Mamod gasket, which must have contributed to all those domes that spin around in the boiler due to being overtightened trying to get a steam tight seal.

Chris Cairns.
To be honest Chris I just fit O rings. I gently file out the insert so it tapers in a little and then fit a slightly under sized o ring in its place. Obviously then you have no more problems with over tightening.

In the video the original fibre washer is leaking, you can replace them if you go to plumb base and get them, but I just prefer to use an o ring.

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:15 pm

Thanks ace but what about refitting them?
my first live steam engine build thread:
http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about6685.html

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Post by ace » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:19 pm

Lner fan Sam:91459 wrote:Thanks ace but what about refitting them?
I align them on the crank pin ready in the slot. I use a pair of needle nose pliers that have serrated teeth on to grip, and pinch them down. Being careful with a finger on top, again it may ping off! :)

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Post by Chris Cairns » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:57 pm

That's exactly what I do as well Sam. Just make sure that the middle tang of the e-clip is actually located in the crank pin slot prior to pinching the e-clip tight.

Chris Cairns.
Last edited by Chris Cairns on Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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