Re-gauging Mamods

[HereticUK]

I apologise if this is a daft question, but how easy is it to re-gauge Mamods and other similar locos (IP Jane, RWM Jane, PPS Jane etc)? I'm just asking because of second-hand availability. It seems easier to find 45mm gauge Mamods second-hand than it is 32mm ones. Is it a simple case of replacing the wheels or is it more complex than that?

[ace]

Well if it is a mamod/mss it should be fairly simple. You will need a new wheel set gauged at 32mm to start and remove the double helping of gaskets behind the cylinders or take out the spacer blocks, see below.

This is 45mm



This is 32mm



As for Janets and such, I believe that you need wheels and cylinders as the cylinders are made to be 45mm. I could be wrong though.

[Narrow Minded]

It's usually just a case of replacing the wheelsets and removing a couple of gaskets from behind the cylinder back plates
But first the bad news
Some replacement/upgrade cylinders were supplied with thicker back plates to avoid having to use extra gaskets
and now the good news
Chris Cairns has succesfully re-gauged 45mm wheelsets by removing one wheel from the axle, removing the spacers, trimming the length of the axle and refitting the wheel.

[ace]

Chris Cairns has succesfully re-gauged 45mm wheelsets by removing one wheel from the axle, removing the spacers, trimming the length of the axle and refitting the wheel.

Is there a thread for this? I'd like to see a work in progress. I have a useless set of 45mm wheels that I'd like to make use of.

[Narrow Minded]

Are you 32 or 45mm ace?
Just asking in case those spacers are going "spare"

[HereticUK]

Thanks for the help guys! So it does seem that buying 45mm and converting to 32mm is actually rather viable...

[Narrow Minded]

Chris Cairns has succesfully re-gauged 45mm wheelsets by removing one wheel from the axle, removing the spacers, trimming the length of the axle and refitting the wheel.

Is there a thread for this? I'd like to see a work in progress. I have a useless set of 45mm wheels that I'd like to make use of.

I can't remember if it was a PM or in one of Chris's excellent threads either in this topic or now moved into the reference section
I'm 100% sure that the man himself will be along before too long to point you in the right direction

[Narrow Minded]

Thanks for the help guys! So it does seem that buying 45mm and converting to 32mm is actually rather viable...

Totally!
Strange though, that whenever I looked (bearing in mind I run on 45mm track) there's usually just 32mm loco's - now you're looking and it's the other way round!
Just goes to prove that Mamods will wind you up every which way they can!

[ace]

Thanks for the help guys! So it does seem that buying 45mm and converting to 32mm is actually rather viable...

Totally!
Strange though, that whenever I looked (bearing in mind I run on 45mm track) there's usually just 32mm loco's - now you're looking and it's the other way round!
Just goes to prove that Mamods will wind you up every which way they can!

I re gauged one of my locos from 45 to 32mm, but I had some upgraded steel wheels that I wanted to use. So for me it was easy.

As for the whole looking around for mamods, I have rarely seen a 45mm one about. You must be lucky (or not)

Are you 32 or 45mm ace?
Just asking in case those spacers are going "spare"

I am 32mm and the 45mm spacers were not required. Unlucky for you I got rid of them a couple of years ago. Sorry.

[Narrow Minded]

I am 32mm and the 45mm spacers were not required. Unlucky for you I got rid of them a couple of years ago. Sorry.

No worries

[HereticUK]

Haha! I can't find anything but 45mm Mamods and IP Janes around, unless I go to Ebay where there are a couple of 32mm Mamods around. Anything Narrow Gauge has a second-hand IP Jane in 45mm as well. It just means now that I have options if I see an old Mamod for, say, £100 but it's 45mm I can still snap it up and not have to worry about the fact it's in the wrong gauge!!

[Chris Cairns]

Not sure where you have been looking but there has been a lot of 32mm Mamod SL's on eBay recently. Anything Narrow Gauge has had a few 45mm Mamod type locos 2nd hand but his prices for those are generally much higher than eBay. And the answer to your question is somewhat longer than posted above as you have asked for a large range of models.

Mamod SL (1980-1989) - These were either supplied in 32mm or 45mm with the exception of the SL1K (kit) which had both wheelsets. So these used the same cylinders and different wheelsets. For 32mm each cylinder was mounted with 2 gaskets and for 45mm each cylinder was mounted with 4 gaskets. A conversion kit to 45mm was sold including the 45mm wheelsets and 4 gaskets.

MSS (1995- to date) - Again these were/are supplied in 32mm or 45mm, the kit versions only having one set of wheels for the required gauge. The thinner Mamod gaskets were replaced by a better & thicker gasket (one per cylinder for 32mm) and originally they supplied a 45mm conversion kit with the wheelsets and 2 gaskets. Latterly the 2nd gasket has been replaced by a 45mm brass spacer (as Ace has shown above). MSS parts will fit the earlier Mamod SL's.

Brandbright/IP Jane (1995-2003) - These were also supplied in either 32mm or 45mm but conversion is not as easy. Generally the 45mm version has a thicker cylinder backplate so you could not use them with 32mm IP Eng holed disk wheels as the front crankpin is not long enough to reach the brass big end on the piston rod. I have managed to fit a set of Dream Steam 32mm plain disk wheels to a 45mm IP Jane which works, but the Forum's recent experience recommends not to use these Dream Steam wheels due to some poor quality control.

PPS Janet (2003-2012) - These were also supplied in either 32mm or 45mm, and again I believe the 45mm cylinders had thicker back plates. I have no experience of the PPS 32mm wheels but believe they were similar to the later IP Eng 32mm plain disk wheels (now supplied by Dream Steam) and had the longer front crankpins. Not sure about the crankpins on the later PPS spoked wheels.

RWM Janet (2012 to date) - Developed from the PPS Janet. I have no experience of these but suspect they would be similar to the PPS Janet above with different thickness cylinder back plates. He has had new batches of his wheels made so a direct enquiry would be required to enquire if the 32mm wheels have long enough crank pins to reach the 45mm piston rods.

Ace - Greg (Narrow Minded) is referring to a set of IP Eng 45mm holed disk wheels where I removed one wheel off each axle (they are only press fitted I believe), removed the 45mm spacers (which Greg made use of), cut the axles down to 32mm and fixed the wheels back on using Loctite 603. I'm sure the same method would apply to the 45mm plain disk steel wheels. The only way to re-gauge a set of 45mm Mamod or MSS wheels to 32mm would be to cut the axles in half, trim the 2 halves to the appropriate length, then glue a piece of tubing over the cut axles. Much easier to buy another set.

Chris Cairns.

[ace]

Ace - Greg (Narrow Minded) is referring to a set of IP Eng 45mm holed disk wheels where I removed one wheel off each axle (they are only press fitted I believe), removed the 45mm spacers (which Greg made use of), cut the axles down to 32mm and fixed the wheels back on using Loctite 603. I'm sure the same method would apply to the 45mm plain disk steel wheels. The only way to re-gauge a set of 45mm Mamod or MSS wheels to 32mm would be to cut the axles in half, trim the 2 halves to the appropriate length, then glue a piece of tubing over the cut axles. Much easier to buy another set.

Thanks Chris, I was curious as to how you replicated the factory pressing on the standard wheels. But what you have said above makes sense.

[Chris Cairns]

Ace, I have had success replicating what MGM Engineering used to do with the wobbly Mamod wheels. They drilled out the mazak wheel centres and fitted them to a plain steel axle. As you may be aware those holes have not always been drilled at 90 degrees but I managed to carefully ream out the hole and then fit a plain steel axle. I think it was 5/32" but will need to check on my return as I'm travelling to Aberdeenshire again today. MGM then punched slots in the chassis frames to hold the brass bearings in place (part of the characteristic wobble is because those bearings are loose and free to move) but I have used Araldite Rapid Steel to hold these bearings in place on my MSS kit built loco which does not wobble.

Chris Cairns

[ace]

Thanks again Chris, info well shared and will be of some use in the future.

[HereticUK]

Indeed, this is very valuable information that will come in handy when I finally start my own garden railway! Thank you all for your advice and help!