Peter Jones Loco Works MSR Tribute "American Mamod"

[Superbiker_uk]

There is not much written about Miniature Steam Railways (MSR) and I have only, up until recently, seen limited information on the web about MSR and the products that they made.

One of the best pieces of information is on the Marc Horovitz site http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.com/ where you will find a page featuring a 1990 produced MSR loco as the January 2007 Locomotive of the month http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.com/locos/loco81.html

This page provides some excellent pictures of this fine looking loco that I like to think of as the American Mamod. I hope by now you have looked at the links above and got up to speed a little about the MSR loco

The information provided tells us that Miniature Steam Railways (MSR) is a little-know American manufacturer that existed in the 1980s and early 1990s under the leadership if Jim Wilson of Dallas, Texas. What I have since learnt is that MSR was a joint venture of two good friends Jim Wilson and Terry Shirley. Terry Shirley is also mentioned in the Marc Horovitz article. So where are we going with this introduction you may ask?

I was very attracted to the MSR loco and thought it would be a superb loco to replicate at some point. Any regular visitors to this section of the forum will know that I like to modify Mamod locos. Well the MSR is a really fine modification of the Mamod loco so I always thought I would build something similar one day.

Well this is when I had a real stroke of luck. I had spotted whilst browsing ebay some loco tender bodies that looked like MSS ones. They were in fact MSR produced tender bodies – more on this later.

I started to watch the ebay seller for new items and every now and again some nice spoked wheels would come up in 45mm gauge, intended for Mamod loco enhancement. This is what led me to get in touch with the seller. It was then that I found that the seller was in fact Terry Shirley! I explained who I was and sent him pictures of some of the Mamod loco’s I had made. I also let Terry know how much a liked the MSR loco.

Since then Terry and I have exchanged numerous emails and I have learnt a little more about MSR and also been shown some pictures of locos built under the MSR name that never became production models. I have been very fortunate to make contact with Terry and it has been a pleasure exchanging information and emails with him over the past 7 months or so. I am sure we will remain in contact. I have been fortunate enough to purchase some unused MSR parts directly from Terry and it is these that have allowed me to complete my tribute MSR loco to Jim Wilson and Terry Shirley.

This thread is to preserve on the web some more information about MSR and also to share some information and pictures about my MSR tribute loco build.

I will post more about MSR , my tribute build and the special MSR parts that have been obtained. So without further ado – here are your first pictures. I am using the images from Sidestreet Bannerworks as a way to compare an original MSR from 1990 with my tribute MSR build from 2013.

1990 MSR right side view:


Photo courtesy Sidestreet Bannerworks -- used with permission

2013 MSR tribute right side view:



1990 MSR left side view:


Photo courtesy Sidestreet Bannerworks -- used with permission

2013 MSR tribute left side view:



More to follow.....

[Chris Cairns]

Very good Peter. Look forward to hearing more about your creation in due course (e.g. Wilesco fittings in a Mamod/MSS boiler?).

I had seen those MSR products on eBay, but thought by the time you add shipping, plus failing foul of Customs Duty & the rip off collection fee, they would end up just too .

Sadly his Rolling Stock items seem even rarer to find.

Chris Cairns.

[Superbiker_uk]

Thank you for the positive comment Chris.

Over the next few threads I will be covering the MSR parts and provide some more information about MSR generally.

So first, the wheels....



I bought the wheel set direct from Terry set up for SM32 running. These were a part that MSR bought in as a casting and then modified for the 'MSR Mamod' application. The MSR uses the Mamod frames so the brass bearings are the same OD as Mamod ones. The axles are a larger diameter though. The rods used again were standard Mamod but were fitted as you can see in the picture using screw in link pins rather than the standard arrangement with C clips.

I recieved the wheels unpainted and then applied Red Humbrol Matt paint to match the MSR pictures I had seen on the web.

Here is one of the pictures when Terry was selling some of these wheel sets on ebay:



You can see that there is a groove on the axle of the wheels - this is so that they can still fit into the slot in the Mamod frames when locating the axle and bearings during assembly.

These are a great part of the loco and are a vast improvement over the standard Mamod wheels.

[Superbiker_uk]

Before we take a closer look at some more MSR parts it is interesting to document where MSR started out.

MSR has always been closely linked with Mamod’s production of their own 0-4-0 steam locomotives.  Being steam fans, Jim Wilson and Terry Shirley wasted no time when they became available in the US of procuring two Mamod loco’s for themselves.  Like many new Mamod SL owners at the time it did not take them long to realise that the locos needed "tweeking" and minor adjustments making before they would run properly.  So Jim and Terry “Mamod- bashed” / overhauled both of these new engines in order that they were able to haul respectable trains.

This is the time that MSR came into being as Jim and Terry realised that many people would probably be disappointed in their Mamod locos as soon as they started to use them. Jim and Terry decided to offer a "re-build" service to Mamod SL owners so that the loco’s could be bought up to what they considered to be proper standards.

It was about this time that MSR recognised the fact that it was inconvenient to always have to remove the Mamod cab's back panel in order to service the fire, check water levels, etc. and so, to Jim and Terry’s way of thinking a tender was the next logical development.

MSR quickly designed one and then went out to get paint mixed to match Mamod's paints. They also wanted to add the same style of lining to the tender to match the Mamod side tanks so they located a silk-screening company who was prepared to do small job work for the pin-striping, and as they say the rest is history and MSR now had a really nice tender to offer to Mamod owners.  

MSR then needed to advertise their efforts and so it was decided to take out an advert with "Garden Railways" magazine in the US. Before long, MSR had generated a small but steady stream of tender orders, loco rebuild requests and questions about what they might be building next……

There will be some more MSR history to follow on another thread but for now it is a good time to introduce the MSR tender in a little more detail.

MSR made tenders to match a number of the SL series including the SLK1, SL3 and SL6. I have examples of each of these MSR tender bodies.  The SLK1 black tender missed out on the pinstripes as I understand it this was because of the difficulty in matching the red used by Mamod on the SLK due to variations in Mamod's own production runs and the red used not remaining the same during kit production.



The SL6 tender I have also carries a screen printed MSR logo:



The tender body used on this loco was stripped and powder coated satin black. You can just see in the picture at the rear of the tender 2 small holes that I added in order to mount a brass ladder in order to match the MSR set up. The Plantation's tender used a nice stamped brass ladder on the rear.  Unfortunately Terry did not have any of these - this part was originally from Model Engineering Works who are no longer trading so a close match had to be found. Brandbright supplied the ladder and it is a close match although sadly it is no longer available from them (I think I bought the last ones from them).



The base of the tender is very similar to the one Mamod uses on the rolling stock and flat cars. However, MSR produced the axle boxes and side frames, wheels, drag beams and coupling system to their own design.

Note the W on the axle boxes:



MSR Drag Beams:



MSR wheels - these are insulated and gauge adjustable. I only had to add the Humbrol Matt Red paint to match the loco's driving wheels:



MSR couplings - cast couplings (MSR cast into them) linked by a spring:



All these parts come together to make a really nice well proportioned tender which although looks similar is not the same dimensions as the MSS version. Also note the larger chrome plated handrail stanchions used by MSR on the tender for the plantation style loco.

Some more pictures of the MSR completed tender:





I added some additional details to the tender by way of a coal load and a rear dummy watertank section. I also added a working rear marker light.

[Superbiker_uk]

Time to take a closer look at where the motive power is converted to movement on the the MSR loco - the cylinders.

MSR had these cylinders made locally at a machine shop in Dallas.  They were actually designed by Jim Wilson specially for this loco.

They are very nicely made and are far superior to the Mamod standard cylinders. They were made to be used with the standard Mamod cylinder port face so are a neat upgrade to the standard Mamod cylinders.





MSR designed a better, larger cylinder assembly to improve on the Mamod one.

Mamod vs MSR below:





OD of a Mamod cylinder is 11.5mm approx. The MSR cylinder OD is 12.7mm approx.

[Chris Cairns]

Peter, the cylinders in the Marc Horovitz review have different end caps and piston big ends, and he states they were made by Jensen. Any reason given by Terry Shirley for the differences?

Chris Cairns.

[Superbiker_uk]

Peter, the cylinders in the Marc Horovitz review have different end caps and piston big ends, and he states they were made by Jensen. Any reason given by Terry Shirley for the differences?

Terry said that the cylinders did not come from Jenson - I asked having read the same info on the sidestreet bannerworks site. I am not sure why they appear to be different unless the loco shipped to Mark was an earlier one with prototype pistons on it? Some of the locos were assembled by Terry and some by Jim so could be Jim had some other parts? All Terry told me is that the cylinders were Jim's design and were made in a machine shop in Dallas. These are the ones I have used on this loco. I have another set for another special project on the go.

[Superbiker_uk]

This thread is going to look at the boiler fittings but before we get on to that, a bit more about MSR.

For simplicities sake, MSR went from tender production as described previously and began offering the tender frame and deck as a "flatcar". MSR also began making cut lumber loads for the flat car and were therefore able to offer 2 different items of rolling stock beside the tender.

Almost all of the MSR customers were located in the USA so Jim and Terry decided to take a hard look at the basic Mamod to see what could be done to it in order to “Americanize" it. The principal being for the loco to still be a serviceable Mamod, but having the definite look of an American loco.  

The MSR loco that you see in the Sidestreet Bannerworks link and as reproduced by myself here is the result of this Americanized Mamod project. It took MSR several months of design work on Jim's part (as he was the MSR draftsman) and several more months before MSR were able to locate a sheet metal works willing to do small production runs.  Adding to the challenge was the fact that MSR had limited funds available and did not want to get in too deeply until it could be seen what the market might be. Jim and Terry finally built 2 prototypes of the model featured here. Terry has one of these and Jim's brother has got the other one. MSR went on to run these prototype locos at Model Train shows. MSR received considerable interest in the loco but unfortunately there was just not enough to justify going into large scale production. Furthermore, MSR (Jim and Terry) still painted and hand-assembled every one of these locos which was time-consuming and besides Terry was already full-time employed by Union Pacific Railroad, so could only handle just so much of an additional work load.  Besides all of this, MSR did continue to develop more items and you can see some of the rolling stock in the Sidestreet Bannerworks link of the Water Tank Cars and the Crane Car.

So if MSR built their loco’s from Mamod SL’s what about the odd looking steam fittings?

Well as some of you will already have recognised the fittings for the SV and whistle are in fact Wilesco items. Now you may be thinking how do these fit the Mamod boiler? or maybe not but I am going to tell you anyway

The Mamod insert threads are ¼” x 26 tpi (threads per inch). Prior to 1990 Wilesco used an M6 x 1mm thread (they now use a standard thread of M6 x 0.75). I have heard the old Wilesco thread referred to as M6 course thread. Anyway – do the maths. ¼” is approximately 6mm (6.35) and 26 threads in an inch means that the 1mm thread pitch on the Wilesco (25.4 threads per inch equivalent) is pretty damn close. Well it all fits nicely and is steam tight so the use of the Wilesco parts was a nice way to change the look of the loco and to upgrade the rather poor Mamod whistle to the very nice Wilesco one whilst allowing the whistle chain to pass through the loco roof.

Terry was able to supply one of the original whistle assemblies to me and I sourced the Wilesco SV – actually a pattern one of the older course thread version from Manor Models.









The next update will be looking at the MSR body work.

[Chris Cairns]

So now we know. Thank You for posting this amazing history & information.

Where does the bell fitted to the steam dome cover come from?

Chris Cairns.

[Superbiker_uk]

Where does the bell fitted to the steam dome cover come from?

Apparently this type of bell was just a decorative item that was available from any arts and crafts type store in the USA back when MSR were making their loco's. Terry tells me that Jim had a knack for spotting small items like this bell and instantly recognise a way to use them to the benefit of MSR loco production!

It is fitted with a small rivet to the standard Mamod steam dome.

[Superbiker_uk]

Peter, the cylinders in the Marc Horovitz review have different end caps and piston big ends, and he states they were made by Jensen. Any reason given by Terry Shirley for the differences?

Chris - having checked this out again with Terry the difference is down to the fact that the cylinders that show up in the Sidestreet Bannerworks review were prototypes which MSR had been developing.  A few of the MSR engines were fitted with these style cylinders until Jim came up with a better design for the forward end cap. These improved versions are the ones you see fitted to my MSR tribute  loco.

[Superbiker_uk]

Having looked at the tender it's time to take a quick look at the other special MSR designed and made body work parts.

MSR cab - this is formed up in one piece and is where the Mamod really takes on the American look. I imagine this is where quite a bit of design work came in from Jim. In my own experience this is the tricky part of Mamod modification as you have to take into account the constraints of the frame design, rear drag beam placement, fuelling set up and of course the boiler back plate. The MSR cab deals with all this surprisingly well and is a very elegant modification in my opinion.

I opted for satin black powder coat on the bodywork as this gives a long lasting and hard wearing finish:



MSR running boards - these are located either side of the boiler and simply bolt onto the front wall of the cab at one end and at the other have long tabs that fit inside the smokebox end cavity in the smokebox casting where the round of the boiler separates from the vertical portion of the casting right above the cylinders. Another elegant solution to completely change the look of the Mamod loco and create that all important American style for the US market.

Again satin black powder coat was used on these:



The roof is quite simple - it's just a rectangular of metal formed over the curve of the cab and held in place with 4 small rivets. It has a small hole where the whistle chain passes through to the cab which is a nice touch. It of course completes the restyling of the MSR and looks very nice painted red - I used red enamel rattle can paint for this piece.



I will cover the detail parts including the cast pieces on another thread.

One small note: my loco is currently missing the heat deflectors so I have decided to hold off any more serious running until I get these fitted. These sheet metal parts fit behind the air compressor castings and screws of the air tank castings to further deflect the heat from the casting themselves to the boiler. They install atop the running boards and are held in place by the same screws that hold up the air tank and compressor castings. It is claimed that these increased the heating of the boiler efficiency which I can well believe. Also they protect the castings from heat damage so the post of the loco running on track will have to wait a short while until I get them sorted.

[Superbiker_uk]

It's time to take a look at some of the detail parts.

One of the nicest features of the MSR is the pilot beam and cow catcher on the front. This truly gives it an American feel and look to the loco.

The loco pictures on the Sidestreet Bannerworks site show the loco with a cast cowcatcher/pilot that MSR originally used. This was before they developed thier own version. The cast type was a crude casting from Model Engineering Works who are now no longer in business. Terry has said that they never really liked the cast cow catcher very much for what they described as a Plantation Style engine.  

MSR decided to design and make a cow catcher especially for their engines and this is what I started with for my MSR build.



The part started out as a flat piece of shaped brass as above. What I had to do was the same process that MSR used - that is to bend and shape the cow catcher and then to fix a section of brass angle to form the V piece. I decided to use a section of hollow square brass tube from K&S to fashion the V piece and once soldered primed and painted looks just right for the loco.



Here you can see the front end on the finished model:



The pilot deck support rods are simple white metal castings.



This was the only pair Terry had so for any future builds I will have to make something up similar to these.

You can see in the above picture of the smoke box the number / works plate on the door. This is not an MSR part. I sourced it from Ozark Miniatures in the USA especially for this build.



The coupling hook was a modified one from Brandbright. It started out as a RSA40 that I cut and filed it to suit.

MSR also sourced the dummy air tanks and compressor castings from Model Engineering Works. It was always MSR's intention to eventually develop their own air tank, and compressor castings as well, as they considered the ones they had sourced to be rather crude even if they did add weight for traction. Of course Jim's untimely death meant this development never came to fruition.



One of the other parts that MSR designed and made is the simple perch bracket for the lamp. The lamp I used for this model was sourced in the UK and was chosen as I thought is suited the model very well.

[dougrail]

That's brilliant, thanks very much for the explanation of the front end detailing. Wonder if the bracket could be replicated?

[Chris Cairns]

Peter,

I'm sure you have seen the MSR SL6 Tender currently on eBay. It comes with a plate which I assume is to safely cover the gap between the tender and the locomotive so the Fireman does fall off whilst shovelling coal!

Chris Cairns.

[Superbiker_uk]

I'm sure you have seen the MSR SL6 Tender currently on eBay. It comes with a plate which I assume is to safely cover the gap between the tender and the locomotive so the Fireman does fall off whilst shovelling coal!

Yes I have seen it! The tender apron is excellent. I have some of these available. They fit in the slots that are left exposed when the Mamod rear cab sheet is removed. It's a great design so I have made some very similar ones to use on my tender locos.

[DolwyddelanLightRail]

I'm sure you have seen the MSR SL6 Tender currently on eBay. It comes with a plate which I assume is to safely cover the gap between the tender and the locomotive so the Fireman does fall off whilst shovelling coal!

Yes I have seen it! The tender apron is excellent. I have some of these available. They fit in the slots that are left exposed when the Mamod rear cab sheet is removed. It's a great design so I have made some very similar ones to use on my tender locos.

Does anyone have a link for this tender? I've had a scan of ebay and can't seem to find it

[Chris Cairns]

Depends which eBay you are looking at James! It is in the USA (Worldwide) option - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mamod-Compati ... 2c71867dde

Peter will be able to advise the extra costs incurred, import duty if item including shipping & insurance is above £135, VAT at 20% and the collection fee (Royal Mail £8, Parcelforce £13:50).

Makes getting items imported from outside the EU much less attractive.

Chris Cairns.

[Superbiker_uk]

So what happened to MSR and why is so little written or known about them compared to other manufacturers?

Well the very sad answer to that is that Jim Wilson passed away in 1995. This fact is covered on the Sidestreet Bannerworks page on MSR.  Jim has been described by Terry as an "Idea Factory" in that he could think up more ‘goodies’ for MSR to work on than could have possibly ever been produced. In fact MSR had started to work on a 2-6-0 using a boiler of MSR’s design and 0-6-0 conversion frames which never really got further than the drawing board. Jim had also ventured into steam mobiles and had been working on a Steam Roller model of an American design, and had even built a prototype for it.  The most amazing item in the MSR works was a "Diesel outline" locomotive which Jim had come up with that was propelled by a Sterling Hot-Air engine.  Believe it or not MSR had also built an amazing Mamod based Panzerzug train for running at shows!! Its very sad that Jim died so suddenly and at a relatively young age.  It makes you wonder what could have happened to MSR had they been able to bring to the market some of these other models.  Terry has been a great help to me in providing information and has stated that running MSR was “fun while it lasted” but when Jim died, a lot of the fun died with him.

MSR were formed right at the start of Mamod’s Steam Loco offering and they continued off and on until Jim’s death in 1995.  MSR produced around 45-50 Plantation engines and 150-175 MSR tenders in various colours. MSR unfortunately did not keep any detailed production records so there is nothing recorded about the rolling stock production. It’s safe to say though that the tank cars and crane car are pretty rare items.

The last MSR

The very last Plantation loco that Terry sent out was a rebuilt one for the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum. The museum had purchased an MSR Plantation Style engine and had used it daily at the museum to demonstrate the principles of steam locomotion to the public, and had literally worn it out!  The MSR loco went back to Terry for a well deserved refurbishment. It must have covered countless miles on the steam display area track at the museum – whether it continues to run in public view I am trying to find out.  I have contacted the museum and will post any new information about it that I find.

I was able to track down a YouTube video on the museum’s web site. If you watch the video you will see at about 2.40m a shot of the live steam layout. Sadly you can’t see an MSR in sight but you can see a G gauge Mamod on the tracks and what Terry thinks is the Plantation loco tender!  Hopefully the museum will get back to me with more information.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dduutNLuhyQ?ve ... width="640" height="390"></embed>

[Superbiker_uk]

Following a suggestion I decided to paint the balloon stack black which is much more prototypical. Whilst I was at it I did the lamp perch bracket and the brass screw heads on the pilot beam supports. Much better. Here are the latest pictures: