IP Engineering 'Jane' History & 'Spot the Difference'

[dougrail]

I dunno, some of us are trying to make a go of stuff....I started out with a battered SLK afterall...

[pauly]

yes but never on the same scale or level of nessecity, we are like classic car enthuisiasts tinkering with our aging motors not because of a lack of more reliable alternatives but because we enjoy our tinkering

[Narrow Minded]

yes but never on the same scale or level of nessecity, we are like classic car enthuisiasts tinkering with our aging motors not because of a lack of more reliable alternatives but because we enjoy our tinkering

Very true

As for some of the previous related comments, for what it's worth I think the introduction of Edrig was the final blow for Janet. With it's low price (and may I even suggest its similar open cab design), it became the "entry level loco of choice" for those who couldn't quite stretch to a Millie (or Bertie).

Also, whatever the reason Mamod threads were given their own sub-forum, I like to think of it in a positive light ~ no other class has been honored with its very own designated part of the forum

[dougrail]

I think a combination of Accucraft with Edrig and Roundhouse with Millie and Bertie started to corner the starter's market.

Add the somewhat-pointless 'stigma' of "oscillator" cylindered engines stemming from the 80s and 90s of Mamod when the factory went through several owners and quality control was up and down like a rollercoaster, added to by the tales of woe stemming from them didn't help.

Thirdly the reduction drastically in the 'industry' of special and upgrade parts [these days it's RWM or DS] followed by the lack of body mods [remember Kenversions] did it in.

Prices, a s/h RH loco can be £450? And an Accucraft, maybe the same, s/h?

However seeing RH now go to nearly £600 new and Accucraft £640+ might open something up. Who knows.

I'm Doug and I like my "classic car". Their format is like a fluid oblong - you can shape it into near anything you like if you try. Saddletanks, tender locos, colonials, gasworks engines, quarry engines...

As for a special forum? Why not - it keeps things clearer for us!

[Lner fan Sam]

Another thing that killed of Janet's and occilators of similar design is the general thought in the 16mm world that they are a very poor design. Yes they can be little buggers at times but when they are running well you always have a smile on your face.

Last Sunday I was at a small steam up and I told I guy that I was building a mss kit and improving it. I was then told that the best thing that I could do was buy a second hand roundhouse basic loco (at £400 pounds I don't think so).

Many people know entering the hobby at my age just simply buy a basic roundhouse or other engines. I picked a mss as they are fun and I could customise it to what I want it to be.

Also having it very own sub forum I feel is a credit to the locos charm and design.

[paullad1984]

personally i have a soft pot for meths fired, pot boilered single cylinders.....it takes all sorts in this world

[Spule 4]

I suppose we will never see anything quite as charming as the days of real mamodry and Make-Do-Modification in this world of well served modelling

Agreed.  I have been snapping up old UK magazines from the 1970s/1980s, the early days of 16mm and a lot of basic stuff, some of it downright crude, but it drips in charm.

No wonder the whole "heritage" movement is live and well.

As for the R/H basic locos and Accucraft offerings...

RWM has a top spec Janet for GBP 410.  RH had another big hike in prices, plus they charge another 20% VAT that is not shown on their website for you domesticated UK modellers.  Accucraft never replaced the overly huge for 16mm Edrig with anything close in price point.  I wonder if a 32mm gauge version of Dora is in the works.

The plus is Roy had a bunch of orders for Janets when I last talked with him right after Christmas~!

So don't count-out the Jane/Janet just yet!

[dougrail]

For whole Janets, plus the growing spare parts clientele too... So, hoping a healthy future for the Janets

Thing is, Accucraft did replace the Edrig with the Ragleth. Sure, closed cab but the cab is open at the back for easy access, like the Caradoc. It's the Lawley with the closed-off cab that's more expertise needed.

[Spule 4]

For whole Janets, plus the growing spare parts clientele too... So, hoping a healthy future for the Janets  ;)

Thing is, Accucraft did replace the Edrig with the Ragleth. Sure, closed cab but the cab is open at the back for easy access, like the Caradoc. It's the Lawley with the closed-off cab that's more expertise needed.

True, replaced in line up, but the price point is GONE. The Ragleth chassis sells for more than the RH basic locos. A Ragleth is $1K US in the US, the Edrig was in the $600 US range in 2008.

[dougrail]

Right now....
RWM Janet - £445
RH Basic [Bertie/Millie] - £598.
Accy Ragleth [closest to Edrig] - £750 or £640.

[pauly]

Right now....
RWM Janet - £445
RH Basic [Bertie/Millie] - £598.
Accy Ragleth [closest to Edrig] - £750 or £640.

with a comparitivly low price like that in this current economical climate Id say the winds just right for the ossy locos to take the world back

[paullad1984]

£750 Archangel Marmaduke 0-4-0T
£795 Archangel Sgt Murphy 0-6-0T

[dougrail]

Right now....
RWM Janet - £445
RH Basic [Bertie/Millie] - £598.
Accy Ragleth [closest to Edrig] - £750 or £640.

with a comparitivly low price like that in this current economical climate Id say the winds just right for the ossy locos to take the world back  ;)

That would be awesome - and hearing about Roy's order for 20 Janets certainly puts a spring in my step.

I recall my experience in Wales 2011 while doing running repairs fighting with 'Deep Thought' -a gentleman was watching and observed that "they [Mamods] sould never have made them - the amount of disappointed boys probably put them off the hobby for life." Which corresponds to the whole Mamod stigma, but wasn't one of the selling points of the IPEJ was that a)they were far far more reliable and b, they were known for being as 'what Mamod SHOULD have built'?

They difference is that RWM/PPS/IP had a much higher degree of quality control.

Also, the Janets aren't bad at all - Roy has a couple of videos of his own personal loco at work o his site - http://www.roywoodmodels.co.uk/

[DolwyddelanLightRail]

[Mamods] sould never have made them - the amount of disappointed boys probably put them off the hobby for life."

If you think about it, not long ago the only real cheap beginner level entry stuff was either Mamod or LGB, and even though electric, I've heard of LGB being not much better either! However, if you think about anything, the entry level stuff is always going to be cheap and crude and can put you off.

Its exactly the same in the guitar world! I started off with Fender Squire Stratocaster, which are awful things in basic form without modifications, they sound bloody awful and don't have a great feel about them at all, it was only when I was searching for a new amplifier that I looked at other guitars, like the Fender American Stratocaster ranges (Effectively the Edrig range as a comparison) and the difference was very noticeable. I ended up walking out of the shop with a Gibson Les Paul Studio, which is like walking out with a lawley or RH George/Mildred. These days with my playing style I sometimes need to use a whammy bar, which my Gibson doesn't but Squire does...so I'm soon to be upgrading all the electronics on it, new neck, new pickups, new whammy bar etc. All that will be left is the body when I'm finished - Sounds a tad familiar? If you keep persisting with something you enjoy it won't matter how crude it is, you'll carry on until you can move "up the chain"

[Narrow Minded]

If you think about it, not long ago the only real cheap beginner level entry stuff was either Mamod or LGB, and even though electric, I've heard of LGB being not much better either! However, if you think about anything, the entry level stuff is always going to be cheap and crude and can put you off.

1. LGB isn't cheap! Nor is it's construction "crude", especially if you take into account the market it was made for (kids of all ages playing in the garden )

2. Many years ago I watched a documentary on the electric guitar. At one point Francis Dunnery sat with two identical looking Strat's - one a Squire, the other a top end Fender.
Which was the better guitar?
The Squire!

Modern mass production meant that on the day of assembly, the neck, body and fittings taken from the parts bins were perfectly matched (the density of the wood grain, machining quality at the high end of tolerance etc), and the result was a first class instrument just as though a luthier had hand crafted it himself from choice materials.

If you keep persisting with something you enjoy it won't matter how crude it is, you'll carry on until you can move "up the chain"

3. If you enjoy playing with what you've got, surely there's no issue? ~ Conversely if you have "issues", then surely you're not happy? (and judging by the numbers of cries for help, there's a lot of people unhappy with their basic Mamod/MSS motive power)

4. Moving "up the chain"? Not quite sure what you mean by that. Obviously it implies acquiring a better engineered loco with superior performance (probably one that is also closer to prototype too without the waggly bits), but is that "moving up" or "changing perspective"??

I hope nobody thinks I'm "having a pop" ~ I have a couple of Mamods and enjoy the challenge, tinkering, fun and nostalgia (I started with one!), but I take a Roundhouse, Accucraft or Pearse loco as first choice for a guaranteed succesful days running. Also, my guitars are tools of my trade, though I now invariably play live with my Line 6 Variax while the Fenders, Gibson and Takamine stay at home! It's a "cheaper" instrument but does the job of all of the others (and more!) while I don't have to worry about it getting damaged or stolen while on the road
~ I'm just trying to constructively comment on what appears to be a "Bungled" thread

[Spule 4]

Right now....
RWM Janet - £445
RH Basic [Bertie/Millie] - £598.
Accy Ragleth [closest to Edrig] - £750 or £640.

with a comparitivly low price like that in this current economical climate Id say the winds just right for the ossy locos to take the world back  ;)

Very possible Pauly. The interesting bit:

23+ year old S/H Mamod on eBay et al - GBP 100+ (wonky wheels, zinc rot, broken bits, etc.)

New MSS stock - GBP 185/215 (side saddle)

Super Mamod (MSS) kit from Dream Steam - GBP 395

However.....

New Mamod MkII - GBP 299 - 319 (depending on gauge)

If one can deal with the looks of the MkII, it is the bargain of the lot.

What is disappointing is that we have not seen a largeer movement of Mamodification of the MkII and bits from suppliers that we saw in the days of old.

My *guess* is this goes back to the change of the times (open box and run) and those that would modify/improve a loco will not do so because "it is a Mamod" as stated above to Doug.

So maybe there is hope Pauly!

[dougrail]

We-ell...checking my accounts, my engine only cost to get up to mechanical spec £269. And 90% of the 'upgrade' parts were brand new.

[Narrow Minded]

We-ell...checking my accounts, my engine only cost to get up to mechanical spec £269.  8) And 90% of the 'upgrade' parts were brand new.

Hmm ~ to balance the equation, that's still more than I paid for my Lady Anne (and no, I wouldn't swap it )