The New??? Mamod Locomotive Mark II

[Crackingjob]

I maybe some time out of date BUT.....The  New Mamod Locomotive Mark II loco has a uprated safety valve, BUT also the steam dome (which seems to be for decoration) also unscrews and the suggestion is that a water top up valve could be used.....anyone got any experience of fitting a top up valve to this new loco and what the thread sizes?

crackingjob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTH7_uuTiuc

[Chris Cairns]

When I received the new Mamod Locomotive Mark II from Mamod to make the YouTube video I asked what was the purpose of the steam chest, and was told it was cosmetic.

No-one has taken up the challenge of fitting a water topup valve to the steam chest boiler insert so far. It appears to be 7/16", but I'm sure an enquiry to Mamod direct would provide the correct thread size.

But is it worth fitting a water topup valve? Whilst you can refill the gas tank with the loco in steam (gas burner off of course) what about refilling the lubricator?

This is a full displacement lubricator so all the oil is used up on one run. If you unscrew the lubricator drain plug with the loco upright then you could end up with a mess of condensate pouring down the side of the cab, and I'm not sure you can get all 2.5mls of oil into the lubricator this way without some draining back out (I refill mine by holding the loco on its side so the filler hole is vertical).

Holding a loco on its side is not good if the gas tank is full, or the boiler is full, as you could end up with liquid gas in the fuel line, or water in the steam line.

Chris Cairns.

[Crackingjob]

Thanks for the info. I viewed the You Tube video...very well done

I find stopping and topping up fun and essential at exhibitions. The Mk2 is an ideal price also, so an adaptor is something I would look to get made so I could fit a top up valve....just need to get a dome to fit!

BUT I do wonder what Mamod are up to sometimes, they seem to have missed the boat with this loco and not looked at what people were doing with the old ones and build a new loco to match.

I tested the Brunel vertical loco at Exeter last year and though fun, its really a loco for 7/8ths plus by its size, but not marketed as such, its certainly not a 16mm loco..

I accept that you buy the basic loco to build on but Mamod confuse me still.

[Spule 4]

My thoughts were a bit of time with a drill bit and a clearing tap, one could either fit the normal mamod boiler or high pressure mamod boiler fill valve to the dome.

The lubricator is a plus for the MkII, but then its arrangement does not make sense....therefore a MkI with either a RH or Deadleg lubriactor added would make more sense, you would just need to re-route the track cleaning exhaust pipe upwards as John Rogers and other have done.  

Agreed Crackingjob, the MkI and MkII Mamods look great on the technical aspects, but oy, the cosmetics!!   I wonder if the upcoming Thomas Telford will be better, or just a cosmetic (paint and stickers) improvement?

Me?  I would think a MkII boiler on the William II chassis would make sense.

[Chris Cairns]

so an adaptor is something I would look to get made so I could fit a top up valve....just need to get a dome to fit!

Something similar to the original IP Jane's. Get an adaptor made to fit this boiler insert allowing a standard Mamod/MSS water top up valve to be fitted, and a suitably sized steam dome fitted on top. Alternatively fit another insert to the boiler.

they seem to have missed the boat with this loco and not looked at what people were doing with the old ones and build a new loco to match.

You need to remember that the current owners of Mamod Ltd, the Terry family, took over control of Mamod in 1992. The original Mamod Railway Company system was discontinued in 1989, and according to the "Mamod - The story of Malins Models" book, David Terry (Mamod Sales & Service - now Model Steam Specialists) acquired the railway system in 1994. That book was of course published by Mamod Sales & Service in 1996, and David Terry, Managing Director of Mamod Limited, stated in Feb 2012

Mamod are happy to put the record straight.

There is no link up with MSS.

When Mamod was purchased in 1992, the new owners were informed that all tooling had been lost. Therefore, loco assets were not included in the price. It was with great surprise, that the Mamod locomotive appeared in the market place several years later.

We have not seen any documentary proof that the loco assets were purchased by others.

Mamod decided to produce vastly superior locos, which are proving to be very successful.

So they had no tooling to restart the original Railway system, and given the much smaller number of locos produced now compared to the old Railway system have adopted an easier format to produce - hence all those rivets. I do wish a new nut & bolt loco (like the old SL1K) could be produced at a reasonable cost.

I tested the Brunel vertical loco at Exeter last year and though fun, its really a loco for 7/8ths plus by its size, but not marketed as such, its certainly not a 16mm loco..

I agree. I took my Brunel to our local railway group (full size steam) where a member runs a 45mm live steam layout. The Brunel will only run in one direction due to otherwise fouling some of his scenery (a bridge parapet).

The lubricator is a plus for the MkII, but then its arrangement does not make sense....therefore a MkI with either a RH or Deadleg lubriactor added would make more sense, you would just need to re-route the track cleaning exhaust pipe upwards as John Rogers and other have done.

I agree Garrett. Instead of a continuous pipe through the lubricator they have fitted two pipes, the steam inlet from the boiler, and the overflow outlet to the reverser valve. Thus all the oil gets displaced and used up and very quickly.

Here is my modified Mark 1 loco, with steam exhaust pipe routed around the boiler to the chimney, and a Dream Steam dead leg lubricator which only just fitted in front of the ceramic gas burner after some careful trimming of the steam pipe and shortening the lubricator pipe entering the reverser valve. A cheaper alternative to buying a Mark 2 (I got my Mark 1 at the original release price so it has been a bargain - just need to replace the plastic gas pipe with a copper one as I've had a few gas leaks with this loco in the past until I fitted a new O ring and cleaned up the tank outlet fitting).

Me? I would think a MkII boiler on the William II chassis would make sense.

I presume what you actually mean is the cab mounted regulator from a Mark 1/2 fitted to the William 2 boiler (William boiler is slightly longer that the Mark 1/2 boilers). I have not had time to write up about my experiences of the William 2 loco so far, but it still suffers from airflow problems with the gas burner and still gets seriously hot (I left the Mamod plastic stickers on my side tanks and they badly melted and have left an impression in the paint which cannot be removed by rubbing compound, etc.). If you mean the smoking chimney as well that is somewhat harder as it would need some interesting exhaust pipework through the chassis, and the current William 2 cylinder blocks have 2 exhaust ports (one on the top other on the bottom, apparently to improve lubrication, but I blocked one port off on my Brunel loco to better control the exhaust steam - that loco gets very messy with exhaust steam everywhere, needs a condenser/separator tank fitted).

Chris Cairns.

[Annie]

I've been trying to make up my mind over what to buy as my first live steam loco and when it came to the new Mamods I was decidedly underwhelmed as to their general appearance. I don't like the fact that they are rivetted together and having the lubricator filler knob stuck like a wart through the side of the cab side sheet didn't impress me at all. In New Zealand dollar terms the new Mamods are shockingly expensive and since I'd be wanting to pull the thing apart to try and make it look like a locomotive I don't feel very much persauded towards buying one.
Truth be told I would much rather buy a basic MSS loco and use that as a basis for further modification to end up with a really useful engine.

[laurence703]

This was a Bog standard MSS loco once...



I've not seen much of the newer mamods but I like the older types as they seem to be more customisable than the new ones.

[Chris Cairns]

Annie,

I agree that the new Mamod Locomotives Mark 1 & 2, and even the William 2 are not really suited to major body modifications, and would require a fair bit of surgery and metal work to change their appearance, thus increasing the overall cost. They do however actually run straight out of the box.

Cannot say the same for the MSS locos. I recently obtained a kit MSS side tank loco which I intend documenting as I build it up. However I have already identified several areas that will need tweaking prior to assembly to allow a proper running loco.

A 2nd hand Mamod railway set would be a good start, but postage to New Zealand would be very prohibitive.

Chris Cairns.

[dougrail]

On the MSS v Mamod debate, I'd be keen to own a mk2 or a William 2 someday to show support for Mamod as it's a British company steeped in history. The William's slip eccentric chassis I'd love to experiment with mind.....

In the more feasible term, I'd like to acquire a mk2 / Diamond Jubille saddletank's reverser block and see if they're the same size and dimemsnions [and steam passages] as the old Mamod, IPE, MSS ones...because they're gasketed. That advancement in reversers would be certainly helpful - and yes, I'd be prepared to test it on Swordbreaker. Just need to acquire one...

Hmm.

Back to kitbashing though, the Old Mamods/ MSSes are infinitely much more fun. The Mamod New Engines have their tanks actually acting as the combichambers which limits the design in terms of kitbashing [unless one builds around/over them]. That plus the looks in the first place a)aren't that elegant on which to base something and b) I believe that everything is riveted in place which is a bad thing - unlike the SLKs and most MSSes these days - easy dismantle, easy fix. This attracts more opportunities to kitbash. That and the Old/MSS are more attractive anyway.

In following Laurence's post, allow me to show a couple of examples.

1)Body modification. Altering the Mamod bodyshell to create a completely different look of engine.





Simple cuts of the tanks, replacing the bcak with a van and adding an extra foot each side of the cab floor, voila.


2)How you can completely transform a Mamod/MSS...

Start with this...



...then add some detail and little addons to the intact superstructure...



.......then go completely for the top, strip it down, sell off all the unwanted parts such as brass boiler, toy wheels and customise fully...

[Spule 4]

so an adaptor is something I would look to get made so I could fit a top up valve....just need to get a dome to fit!

Something similar to the original IP Jane's. Get an adaptor made to fit this boiler insert allowing a standard Mamod/MSS water top up valve to be fitted, and a suitably sized steam dome fitted on top. Alternatively fit another insert to the boiler.

What I was actually on was to put it in the existing dome, one could then hide it inside a lager dome. But then I am not familiar with the original Jane valve.

The lubricator is a plus for the MkII, but then its arrangement does not make sense....therefore a MkI with either a RH or Deadleg lubriactor added would make more sense, you would just need to re-route the track cleaning exhaust pipe upwards as John Rogers and other have done.

I agree Garrett. Instead of a continuous pipe through the lubricator they have fitted two pipes, the steam inlet from the boiler, and the overflow outlet to the reverser valve. Thus all the oil gets displaced and used up and very quickly.

Here is my modified Mark 1 loco, with steam exhaust pipe routed around the boiler to the chimney, and a Dream Steam dead leg lubricator which only just fitted in front of the ceramic gas burner after some careful trimming of the steam pipe and shortening the lubricator pipe entering the reverser valve. A cheaper alternative to buying a Mark 2 (I got my Mark 1 at the original release price so it has been a bargain - just need to replace the plastic gas pipe with a copper one as I've had a few gas leaks with this loco in the past until I fitted a new O ring and cleaned up the tank outlet fitting).

Well done Chris. Unfortunately, I missed out on the MkI when it was cheap. Also, are Mamod still selling this loco? Forest Classics have not had it in stock for a while since the MkII came about.

I like the front smokebox door, Steam4Fun used to stock one, but they do not list this anymore. Is this the same?

Me?  I would think a MkII boiler on the William II chassis would make sense.

I presume what you actually mean is the cab mounted regulator from a Mark 1/2 fitted to the William 2 boiler (William boiler is slightly longer that the Mark 1/2 boilers). I have not had time to write up about my experiences of the William 2 loco so far, but it still suffers from airflow problems with the gas burner and still gets seriously hot (I left the Mamod plastic stickers on my side tanks and they badly melted and have left an impression in the paint which cannot be removed by rubbing compound, etc.). If you mean the smoking chimney as well that is somewhat harder as it would need some interesting exhaust pipework through the chassis, and the current William 2 cylinder blocks have 2 exhaust ports (one on the top other on the bottom, apparently to improve lubrication, but I blocked one port off on my Brunel loco to better control the exhaust steam - that loco gets very messy with exhaust steam everywhere, needs a condenser/separator tank fitted).

Yes, I was thinking that the regulator design as a minimum, the body and even the bodywork are not very flattering.

The dual ports would be an issue, but my thoughts were if I were to modify a MkII or MkI, I would add a real one and a dummy to balance it out.

Again, good information.

[Annie]

For the moment any possible Mamod purchases are on hold because I've just bought myself a down-on-its-luck Bowman to rebuild. By the time I've finished with that I should be worthy of a pot boiler's fitter's ticket and ready to tame a Mamod/MSS.

A William costs $NZ939.30 new from Mamod (NZ) Ltd so unless I find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow I don't see myself buying one anytime soon.

[Chris Cairns]

I'd like to acquire a mk2 / Diamond Jubilee saddle tank's reverser block and see if they're the same size and dimensions

Sadly it is not the same size Doug. The old Mamod/MSS reverser block is approx 63/64" wide between the chassis, whereas the new Mamod reverser block is only approx 57/64" wide between the chassis. Whether the rotary part of the new reverser valve is interchangeable is a matter of dismantling my locos to find out. The only real improvement with the PPS reverser valve is this rotary part which has much smaller cut-outs, I'm sure the blocks are much the same. Wonder if Roy Wood would sell just the rotary part? As for getting parts from Mamod just phone them up and ask. I got a set of spectacle rings and handrails to 'beautify' my Mark 1 loco.

The Mamod New Engines have their tanks actually acting as the combustion chambers

Not true. The William family (Queens Golden Jubilee, William & William 2) actually have 2 vertical plates which are riveted to the chassis to form the combustion chamber (see here for some very good photos - http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/viewt ... 59&start=0 The plates on the Mark 1 & 2 are actually shaped with 3 bent faces up from the chassis which does a better job of keeping the heat away from the side tanks (my stick on transfers on my William 2 badly melted onto the side tanks, whereas my Mark 1 & 2 transfers are OK so far). The advantage of the old Mamod/MSS combustion chambers is they only contact the chassis through the 4 mounting slots plus the 2 bolts securing them to the cab front, thus a lot less heat is transferred than the later "riveted to the chassis" combustion chambers.

But then I am not familiar with the original Jane valve.

It was fitted with a metal disc which fitted under the water top-up valve allowing a brass steam chest to be fitted by friction fit on the disc to cover up the top-up valve. Cannot find any photo but here is the item from the old PPS catalogue.

Also, are Mamod still selling this loco?

Yes it is still available on the new Mamod website, although I am aware that their shipping to USA is expensive.

I like the front smoke box door, Steam4Fun used to stock one, but they do not list this anymore.  Is this the same?

Yes it is the Steam4Fun smoke box door. He started off with quite few railway enhancements, including selling the locos and rolling stock, but has cut back quite a bit. It is actually the same smoke box door as used on the mobile engines, and he just ground out the centre on the back so it would fit flush on top of the Mamod boiler smoke box door handle screw fitting. Still available for the mobiles here - http://www.steam4fun.com/epages/g...hop ... ucts/FUN20 I have bought several of his enhancements, although he does suffer from stock control (I guess his full time job gets in the way). Here are 2 I have in the paint shop, you can see the ground out hole on the left one.

I've just bought myself a down-on-its-luck Bowman to rebuild.

Welcome to the world of Bowman locos Annie, a subject which has not graced this Forum so far. I started off with a Bowman 300 which raced around some old Hornby O gauge track, then I got an incomplete Bowman 234 with some Hornby O gauge rolling stock, and a very beat up Bowman Oil Tank wagon, and have now added a Bowman 265 and some Bowman track which needed a bit of work to be usable, but was a bargain as I now have a complete oval to run my Bowmans on (it was actually originally sold by Bowman as suitable for use in the Garden). Which Bowman loco have you got Annie?

Chris Cairns.
(edited due to Photobucket problems)

[Spule 4]

Chris, again a wealth of information, you must hold a PhD in Mamodification History...

Shipping, the whole thing is a bit odd, Forest deducts VAT, whilst Mamod do not. But Mamod's shipping is actually CHEAPER (by GBP 20 or more) than Forest, so you have to "price check" both.

The disgusting bit was the shipping charge for my SLK1 from Anything NG for around GBP 30, 48 hours, via UPS. And it was packed very well, to me that is a more "honest" shipping charge". Based on this and some other factors, I would buy from Simon again!

Anyhow, John Rogers' MkI and II Mamodifications published in Garden Rail both used the 38mm smokebox door from Garden Railway Specialists, but had to modify it to fit flush on the boiler as you point out.

[dougrail]

I'd like to acquire a mk2 / Diamond Jubilee saddle tank's reverser block and see if they're the same size and dimensions

Sadly it is not the same size Doug. The old Mamod/MSS reverser block is approx 63/64" wide between the chassis, whereas the new Mamod reverser block is only approx 57/64" wide between the chassis. Whether the rotary part of the new reverser valve is interchangeable is a matter of dismantling my locos to find out. The only real improvement with the PPS reverser valve is this rotary part which has much smaller cut-outs, I'm sure the blocks are much the same. Wonder if Roy Wood would sell just the rotary part? As for getting parts from Mamod just phone them up and ask. I got a set of spectacle rings and handrails to 'beautify' my Mark 1 loco.

That's a real shame about the New Mamod reverser blocks. Gasketed blocks would I believe improve our SL-based engines quite a bit. However I would disagree about the PPS reverser in terms of what it adds; I tested it in a standard Mamod loco beside its own standard reverser and I got more steam time out the loco, smoother running too. I would add them alongside the water topup, the higher pressure SV and the meths burner to improve any loco, even a basic condition one. Wonder if someone could copy the New Mamod gasket design...

The Mamod New Engines have their tanks actually acting as the combustion chambers

Not true. The William family (Queens Golden Jubilee, William & William 2) actually have 2 vertical plates which are riveted to the chassis to form the combustion chamber (see here for some very good photos - http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/viewt ... 59&start=0 The plates on the Mark 1 & 2 are actually shaped with 3 bent faces up from the chassis which does a better job of keeping the heat away from the side tanks (my stick on transfers on my William 2 badly melted onto the side tanks, whereas my Mark 1 & 2 transfers are OK so far). The advantage of the old Mamod/MSS combustion chambers is they only contact the chassis through the 4 mounting slots plus the 2 bolts securing them to the cab front, thus a lot less heat is transferred than the later "riveted to the chassis" combustion chambers.[/quote]

I knew the William models had separate combichambers as seen elsewhere but the New Mamod Mk1 and Mark II locos were what I meant standalone. Didn't realise they had separate chambers inside those bodies - they look like the old Mamod/MSS combichambers in their own right with the sloped-up undercarriage.

I prefer the PPS combichamber for the old engines mind - thicker steel, better made, less flexing and no rivets or connecting screws.

[Chris Cairns]

John Rogers' MkI and II Mamodifications

Garrett,

Do you know what issue of Garden Rail John's Mark 1 is featured in? I do not subscribe to Garden Rail but I have a copy of his Mark 2 article - just read it again and only noticed now that his Mark 2 was supplied in Green. I thought they were all supplied in Grey.

I prefer the PPS combichamber for the old engines mind

Doug,

Just been back through your postings on the 'other' Forum. The combustion chamber that you got from PPS is actually for their PPS Janet, the same as the IP Eng 'Jane' one. Although it fits the old style Mamod/MSS you would not be able to use a solid fuel burner tray as the rear face is not bent at 90 degrees like the Mamod ones. It is the lack of this 90 degrees bend which gives better protection to the meths or gas burners fitted to IP Jane/PPS Janet's. This combustion chamber also has no mounting holes on the rear face as the IP Jane/PPS Janet has no cab front, only a spectacle plate mounted on top of the side tanks. You will also notice the small hole near the bottom of the rear face on the RHS - this is for the steam outlet pipe from the cab mounted lubricator in the IP Jane/PPS Janet going forward to the reverser valve.

Chris Cairns.

[Spule 4]

John Rogers' MkI and II Mamodifications

Garrett,

Do you know what issue of Garden Rail John's Mark 1 is featured in? I do not subscribe to Garden Rail but I have a copy of his Mark 2 article - just read it again and only noticed now that his Mark 2 was supplied in Green. I thought they were all supplied in Grey.

Chris Cairns.

Chris-

Not sure on the issue unfortunately. Did you get my PM?

Anyhow, if I remember what John wrote, his two Mamodified locos were review samples sent to Tag/Garden Rail, and I think the Green MkII *may* have been a pre-production loco.

[dougrail]

Just been back through your postings on the 'other' Forum. The combustion chamber that you got from PPS is actually for their PPS Janet, the same as the IP Eng 'Jane' one. Although it fits the old style Mamod/MSS you would not be able to use a solid fuel burner tray as the rear face is not bent at 90 degrees like the Mamod ones. It is the lack of this 90 degrees bend which gives better protection to the meths or gas burners fitted to IP Jane/PPS Janet's. This combustion chamber also has no mounting holes on the rear face as the IP Jane/PPS Janet has no cab front, only a spectacle plate mounted on top of the side tanks. You will also notice the small hole near the bottom of the rear face on the RHS - this is for the steam outlet pipe from the cab mounted lubricator in the IP Jane/PPS Janet going forward to the reverser valve.

Chris Cairns.

That's right. I ordered it as I pretty much ordered the 'guts' of a PPS Janet for a special project - boiler, p-gauge, regulator, steampipes, water and high safety valves and the combichamber. The PPS as you say has better 'weather protection' which helps as it has a deeper downward flap at the front too, creating a sealed-in [from sides and top anyway] environment for the burner.

I also notice that with some Mamod combichambers it's a bit of a push to get the chamber to slot onto the frames exactly right, whereas the PPS one just glides on without effort.

As for that hole yes it's definitely for the stesampipe - and I to my shame didn't cop it when I first used it back in Sept 2011!! I insteand routed the pipe...under downward flap.

Yes, I was [and still am] inexperienced at this game...shoot me. Luckily I have a good friend who spotted this and rerouted the pipe and also so that it went through the flames of the gas burner to "superheat" it.

[Spule 4]

Yes, I was [and still am] inexperienced at this game...

I would say that statement Doug is far from the truth.

Everyone has to start somewhere, and those that dork around with Mamods have a quite a bit of knowledge under their belts.

[dougrail]

Well, I can paint stuff now that I've sorted out and patented the "KICK-ASS™" paint sequence at least...took me three months to get right mind.

[Annie]

I've just bought myself a down-on-its-luck Bowman to rebuild.

Welcome to the world of Bowman locos Annie, a subject which has not graced this Forum so far. I started off with a Bowman 300 which raced around some old Hornby O gauge track, then I got an incomplete Bowman 234 with some Hornby O gauge rolling stock, and a very beat up Bowman Oil Tank wagon, and have now added a Bowman 265 and some Bowman track which needed a bit of work to be usable, but was a bargain as I now have a complete oval to run my Bowmans on (it was actually originally sold by Bowman as suitable for use in the Garden). Which Bowman loco have you got Annie?

Chris Cairns.
(edited due to Photobucket problems)

I've got a 234 that's missing its boiler and cylinders that I want to rebuild and improve in a similar way to how Markie made their Bowman replicas. I like Bowmans, I've owned a 234 before, but like a fool I sold it and regretted it ever since.

Thankyou by the way Chris for your advice regarding Mamods and MSS locos. I can see myself eventually buying a Mamod, but not until I've got the Bowman bug out of my system.