Point rodding and concrete track

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Ensign Elliott
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Point rodding and concrete track

Post by Ensign Elliott » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:02 pm

Hi all

Can anyone recommend any suppliers of point rodding and signal wire parts suitable for Peco G45 track?

I'd like to have working point rodding and signal wires and although I'm aware I'll need to scratch build some of it, some pre manufactured cranks, wheels and stools would be great. Not after any which is bang on scale but something which I can adapt would be good.

Also, I'd like to add concrete/cement around the track in my shed area. I've seen this done on pictures of people's layouts and it look very good. How do people manage to do this and still have gaps for the wheel flanges to allow running? Is it a case of spread the cement and run a set of wheels over it before it dries to create the gaps? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

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TonyW
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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by TonyW » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:22 pm

The best way to create flangeway is to do it like The Real Thing with an extra pair of rails. Run a couple of lengths of string between them in the flangeway, and remove the string when the concrete has hardened.
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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by SimonWood » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:24 pm

TonyW wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:22 pm
Run a couple of lengths of string between them in the flangeway, and remove the string when the concrete has hardened.
String! I wouldn't have thought of that but I can see how perfect it is for the job. Great tip - thank you.

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by philipy » Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:19 pm

Firstly, welcome to the forum.
Would you like to tell us a bit about your railway plans?
Ensign Elliott wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:02 pm
Hi all

Can anyone recommend any suppliers of point rodding and signal wire parts suitable for Peco G45 track? I'd like to have working point rodding and signal wires and although I'm aware I'll need to scratch build some of it, some pre manufactured cranks, wheels and stools would be great. Not after any which is bang on scale but something which I can adapt would be good.
Not something I've ever come across myself, but maybe somebody else has. You could try looking through our suppliers list https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 59&t=13215. If you do a search for Potters Orchid, Dazza's very comprehensive thread gives info on his signalling methods. I have a couple of very short rodding runs and I had to make the stools and cranks myself and used brass rod for the rodding itself.
Ensign Elliott wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:02 pm

Also, I'd like to add concrete/cement around the track in my shed area. I've seen this done on pictures of people's layouts and it look very good. How do people manage to do this and still have gaps for the wheel flanges to allow running? Is it a case of spread the cement and run a set of wheels over it before it dries to create the gaps? Any advice would be appreciated.
I have two path crossings where the track runs in concrete. I spiked down lengths of rail on the inside, like check rails, and simply infilled between them with mortar. I wouldn't use wheel flanges to create a groove, even that specific wheelset will rub and wear as it runs through, and any others which are fractionally different in B-B will cause perpetual derailments.

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:24 pm

Hi Ensign Elliott,

Welcome to the forum.

Regarding check rails, my only comment above what's already been said would be to make sure you provide an adequate flangeway, particularly if it's on a curve.

I think you might be struggling with signal wires. Anything you do in 16mm will lack the weight and flexibility that the 12" to the foot version relies upon to return a signal to danger.

Point rodding may be a much more possible venture though. I'm sure I've seen two or three manufacturers offering components but I'm not sure how functional they are. I am seriously considering something similar myself and I've invested in some Cliff Barker products. I've done nothing with them yet but they appear to be robust. He produces single and four way trestles and equal arm cranks, together with suitable wire to make round rodding. My concern, in the garden environment, is fixing the trestles securely enough to prevent the rodding moving in the ground. It wouldn't take much movement to open the switch on a set of points with unwanted consequences!

Like Philip says, we'd love to see more of your plans and you line and I would personally be very interested to see how your S&T plans develop.

All the best,

SVLR Andrew
"Smith! Why do you only come to work four days a week?
"'cause I can't manage on three gaffer!"

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by gregh » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:18 am

I have 6 path crossings up to 25 years old, and quite a few metres of track concreted in too (because the sleepers had rotted).
1. The most common method I use is just to trowel the concrete over the track and smooth it with a trowel. Then a few hours later get a screwdriver with a 6-8mm wide blade and use it to dig out the conc alongside each rail.

Three of my crossings were laid on top of existing paths by making a 'hump'.
https://gardenrails.org/viewtopic.php?f ... h&start=60

In one of these I did not fill between the rails with conc - just up to sleeper top. Outside of the rails the conc is at rail top level. It has lasted OK with no damage to rails by a wheelbarrow or wheelie bins. Note I was using aluminium bar as rails there!
IMG_9788.JPG

2. Two crossing were laid along with the conc path - ie at the same time.
3. The 6th one was actually cut into an existing path using an angle grinder to cut slots for the brass rails!


In one early case I tried used 3mm balsa up against the inside of the running rails, then laid the conc as 1. above. When the conc was fully set I dug the balsa out with a screwdriver.
I would never waste good brass rail as a 2nd set of 'guard rails'.

In all cases make sure the track is level across the rails and the conc OUTSIDE the rails is no higher than the rails or you may find your wagon steps or cowcatchers scraping.
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by Ensign Elliott » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:12 pm

Hi all

Thanks for all the helpful replies - they give me some idea of what to do for the concrete section and what I'll need to do for the point rodding etc..

Some pictures attached of the current set up. Nothing too fancy, just a circuit of single track with a spur off to what will become a shed and loco maintenance area. I may put in a loop over the far side where I hope to put a station area. I'd also like some WR signals. I'm an N Gauge modeller so all this G Gauge stuff seems massive!

I've got a little IP Engineering battery powered shunter along with a few wagons which I got to test the track and have a play. I've got the Roundhouse Millie on order which should be arriving in May so I'm very much looking forward to that.

Thanks again all
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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by Ensign Elliott » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:12 pm

More pics
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20210309_110313.jpg

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by Ensign Elliott » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:13 pm

Loco and wagons in shed area which I hope to concrete over.
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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by Andrew » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:27 pm

That's a promising start - I like the battery loco too.

Just a thought, but you might want to consider increasing the clearance between the two sidings before concreting? It could just be that I'm used to the spacings for 32mm track, but I wonder whether you might have trouble if you get any wider stock?

I look forward to seeing your Millie in action on the line - it sounds like it will be one of the last to leave the factory?

All the best,

Andrew.

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by philipy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:49 am

I agree with Andrew, it's looking good for starters. That little loco is a nice job.
I also agree with Andrew on your track spacing. It's difficult to be sure what you currently have, but as a rule of thumb you really need to be thinking in terms of around 150mm centre-centre, on adjoining tracks. Most rolling stock is around 80-90mm+ wide, unless you are planning on quarry/mine working.

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by Ensign Elliott » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:33 am

Thanks - the gap seems plenty wide enough for the the wagons but I'm not sure how much overhang the steam loco will have so definitely something to bare in mind.

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by philipy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:52 am

Ensign Elliott wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:33 am
Thanks - the gap seems plenty wide enough for the the wagons but I'm not sure how much overhang the steam loco will have so definitely something to bare in mind.
A Millie is 108mm wide but a Lady Anne is 125mm wide and of course overhang increases slightly on curves.

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Re: Point rodding and concrete track

Post by Old Man Aaron » Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:33 am

Must agree it all looks great. I know the feeling, everything seemed huge, having come from HO. One eventually gets used to it.
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