Time to build a railway...but where?

Sir Clothem Cap · Post by **Sir Clothem Cap** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:03 pm

Wow so much potential, narrow gauge is meant to meander with the topography and take the easiest route. a bridge over such wonderful water featurse is a must for photography slight gradients are acceptable but level is ideal. If I was nearer you'd have a volunteer to assist in building it. Go for it.

To make it easy to start lay some track out roughly and use straight bits laying across other bits to paint in curves then plan it in managable stages with plenty of photos to keep us all informed and to help you with motivation.

Dr. Bond of the DVLR · Post by **Dr. Bond of the DVLR** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:26 pm

Plenty of bridges to choose from!

Plenty of welsh ones but for one closer to my heart...

Southwold railway bridge!

Besides its your railway, if you have to take your railway across a river it will have needed a big bridge! There doesn't have to be a prototype for everything.

invicta280 · Post by **invicta280** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:45 pm

A superb location for a garden railway. Strangely though, I reckon careful planning is even more important with such a large site with open aspects than is the case with the normal suburban garden which imposes its own discipline.
The trick would be to get the railway looking like its meant to be there, not lost in a big landscape.
As the others have said though, you've got it all, space, natural slopes,water.

Bet you a tenner you fall victim to the live steam bug!

TommyDodd · Post by **TommyDodd** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:46 pm

And narrow gauge railway bridges could get pretty big, even on 2' gauge. This beauty is the biggest of them all, across the Van Stadens gorge on the Avontuur line in South Africa

A 16mm scale model would be about 11' high...

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:55 pm

You're all trying very hard to convince me and I must admit it's working!
My concern of high level track over water is the possibility of the train diving into the depths, in my case about 3 feet deep.
Any experience of that?
Any advice on how to prevent it?

spooner · Post by **spooner** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:37 pm

You make a bridge with handrails?

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:39 pm

Doh!!!

spooner · Post by **spooner** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:55 pm

I'm sorry for not make my self clear.The hand rails are made from welder mesh.That should stop you pried and joy from tacking a dip.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:50 am

Maybe the thing to do would be to pick a spot on your property where you reckon you'd like to have a "station" of some kind, and then pick another in another spot, and put yourself to work trying to figure out a way to get a train to go between them, using whatever strategy a real railway engineer would and taking into account the kind of gradients steam engines like. Research what the real guys were doing, bridges, cuttings, spirals, etc. Of course you'd be better off picking two spots that are at similar elevation, but the "meandering" that narrow gauge railways do is all in an effort to follow contours, which you can do on your model railway too. Make up a transportation problem and then use real "scale" engineering to solve it. That way your railway will really look like it belongs there. That's what the real ones had to do.

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:55 pm

Firstly, I hope all the Forum members have had a very happy Christmas holiday and received all of the railway goodies they wished for from Santa!
I have been sploshing around on rain-soaked grass still deciding where to place the railway and I have made a decision....no use rushing these things.
All of the advice and ideas have been taken into consideration and at last a picture has formed.
The shed idea is the most important for storage, train preparation and shelter against the elements. It also gives the opportunity to incorporate my existing 16mm exhibition layout which I have stored for many years since retiring it from the circuit. It is not designed for outdoor use and is too big to move about, so, it will form the terminus and have access via trap-doors to the Garden Railway section.
The shed can be seen on the first photograph and the line will exit on the left running into rising ground giving scope for contour running into the slope.

Inside the shed the layout is being altered to fit and operate with battery locos. The points inside wil be electrically operated as will the signals.

Outside I am keen to use pneumatic point operation....any information would be gratefully received.
Thanks for all the help so far,
Peter.

Sir Clothem Cap · Post by **Sir Clothem Cap** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:45 pm

Great decision. Most outdoor points are just manually controlled as it stops the problems of systems breaking down. best to lay the track then work on point control.

TommyDodd · Post by **TommyDodd** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:56 pm

One thing to look out for with indoor/outdoor operation is train length. Pointwork takes up a lot of space, so your average indoor layout doesn't have loops and sidings big enough for very long trains. Conversely, when you've got a lot of space to play with it seems a shame not to have the occasional 30+axle drag snaking across the landscape. Think carefully about the kind of running you want to do before committing concrete to holes in the ground.

IrishPeter · Post by **IrishPeter** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:42 pm

I found with our relatively large yard geography told me exactly where the railway had to go in order to keep the gradients no worse than 1 in 30! That was a blessing as with a canvas roughly 2 chains by 1 chain I could have been tempted to go nutso and do too much. However the steady falling gradient punctuated by dirty great boulders across the lot pretty much told me where I could work.

When I started out I set some parameters. As I have the room I decided that the tightest curve would be 8' (152 sc. ft.) and that loops would be not less than 12 feet long to give me the opportunity to run some fairly hefty trains, and some pretty big equipment (42'6" carriages are not small in SM45) without it overwhealming the railway. As it happens my line is fairly short but that is due to geographical constaints.

You will find that pneumatic point motors work best outdoors, but it is best to lay the air lines alongside the railway in the ballast like Notwork Fail does their cables, colour code at intervals with electrical tape - yellow for distant signals; red for homes; etc - and make a map of where the blessed things are, so you know which one to yank out when it fails. Personally I would keep the runs fairly short and use local installations for each station as that will mean there is less tubing to fail. My line is on hand throws and wire worked signals because out climate plays hell with even silicon hoses.

Hope this helps,

Peter in AZ

IRON MAN · Post by **IRON MAN** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:39 pm

Cracking canvas there.

A good bit of advice would be to do a tour of other sixteen mil lines to try and get as much experience as possible in how others have built their lines.

Below is a inspirational perspective from a well missed source...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Practical-Garde ... 1861268335.

Dan

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:16 pm

Many thanks for the advice Dan, I would love the opportunity to view other 16mm (32mm gauge!) layouts but feel as though I am on Mars...... Where are they? Certainly not within reasonable distance of my location here in West Wales.
I spend hours trawling the You-tube offerings but nothing compares to the real thing!
Unfortunately the web-site you gave goes nowhere.
Even 'Garden Shows' are many miles away but I did manage a trip to Llanfair and saw some of the products available there.
My earlier experience with 16mm modelling has all been with indoor exhibition layouts so outside, and particularly with difficult ground conditions, is a whole new world to me.
I am grateful to all those who offer advice and will take any suggestions on-board which suit the location I have to work with.
This is Wales.....it is wet!, very wet!...and soft...and slippery!...on a slope!...windy!............
BUT...it is....secluded!...private!...empty!...available!... waiting for something to happen!..............
I have made a start with the indoor section and will continue as best I can using what ideas have been given so far. I must remember that this is MY RAILWAY and should create it the way I want it to be. Everyone makes mistakes and think they know better. In the end it is there to serve my desires and display my stock to my own wishes. Having said that, nothing would please me more than to share it with others and have open days to enjoy the spirit of railway modelling. I only intend to run battery electric RC locos but would like it to be user-friendly for steam as well (restricted to outdoors only!) If anyone out there, within reasonable distance, is open for viewing, I would love to make arrangements to come. (I am based near Carmarthen)
Peter.

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:06 pm

Hmmm, I can see the difficulty. There seem to be a few 16mm members scattered around, but of course the membership list doesn't indicate who actually has a railway. Laurie Wright's Cwmcoediog Railway in Aberystwyth - quite a trek, mind? Or combine that with a trip up to the Llechfan Garden Railway? I think there are some more in south Wales and the Valleys, but again that's quite a trek across for you.

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:01 pm

Richard, thanks for your reply and understanding..... I have been exhibiting at a Carmarthen Toy and Train fair today and asking local exhibition organisers and model rail club members about their knowledge of potential garden railway owners and have still met with a negative response.
Aberystwith is certainly within reach....I have even made the journey by bus, using my pass! (the bus stops outside my house and goes all the way). If Laurie Wright is contactable via the Forum (or otherwise) I am able to go there by car too.
I am now checking where Llechfan is located to see whether that is a viable proposition at the same time.
Peter.

hussra · Post by **hussra** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:56 am

Peter Butler:78581 wrote:If Laurie Wright is contactable via the Forum (or otherwise) I am able to go there by car too.

Will PM details, or he's in the 16mm membership list.

Peter Butler:78581 wrote:I am now checking where Llechfan is located to see whether that is a viable proposition at the same time.

Llechfan is at the Talyllyn Railway's terminus at Tywyn Wharf - contact Steve and Kes via the contact form at http://www.llechfan-garden-railway.org/

The most recent Association membership list I have (on the 2012 DVD) shows 7 members (including yourself) in Carmarthenshire and 8 in Pembrokeshire and some more in Ceredigion, including a few down your end of the county. This of course doesn't mean that any of them have garden railways.

I don't think any of my local model railway club members would know I have a garden railway - I don't really do indoor model railways any more. It's depressingly easy for a garden railway to remain hidden - there was one 200 yards down the road from me, which I only found out about after the chap died.

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:17 pm

Long delay, but much progress to report!
I did manage to contact, and visit, Laurie Wright (many thanks for the contact information Hussra).... His Garden Railway is a delight, and he and his wife are extremely pleasant people willing to discuss their achievements over the difficult terrain.
If they can build a Garden Railway on a 1 in 4 slope then I can make it happen on my patch!
Despite the poor weather (again) much work has taken place in and around the shed. The layout has been altered to fit the available space which is 18ft long. This required one section being cut across its width. The materials include softwood framing, plywood baseboard, Modroc, plaster, real stone ballast, ground cover scatter and other scenic details. Not a problem for a 10 inch angle grinder!!! Mission accomplished with absolutely no damage whatsoever, apart from the one section becoming two!
The exit from the Station end of the board has two tracks which go outside to the Garden Railway part of the line. Two holes were cut in the shed wall and disguised with overbridges.
The sky paper is excellent in adding a finish without being too fussy.
I have also cut a doorway in the end wall to allow access and viewing directly from inside to the Garden section.
Next will be to begin laying the supports to get the track from the shed to reach the ground when the height has increased to the same level. I have a track plan in mind and 150ft of track waiting to be laid...Just waiting for it to stop raining.

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:23 pm

I have sent this separately as it refused to co-operate the first time. I hope it shows more clearly what I tried to explain in the text.

Garden Railway Forum

Time to build a railway...but where?

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