Time to build a railway...but where?

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Trevor Thompson
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Trevor Thompson » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:51 am

Peter Butler wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:09 pm Fortunately mister bandsaw was very gentle with the flat truck and neatly removed part of the deck on either side making it possible for the Braugham's wheels to drop onto platforms.....

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I need to make support brackets to attach the platforms to the underside of the flat deck so the wheels can be rested on them.....

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I am now basing my model on the Ffestiniog Railway four-wheel carriage-truck as shown in my copy of the 'Spooner Album', which I have acquired since I built the first model....

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Unfortunately it doesn't show how the load was secured to the wagon. Can anyone please offer advice on this?
I cant pretend that I actually know - but when you looked at the photo on the page next to the one with the drawing you will have seen that there are three rings on each side.

I am sure that is where the ropes would have been on the wagon end - but I wonder if they attached the other ends to the axles or to the wheels themselves. I wouldn't think that they would have anything on the body of the coach to attach to, it being very lightly built, nor with soft springing would that have worked.

I wonder if that Ffestiniog wagon was used much - or even ever!

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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:11 pm

Thank you Trevor, I hadn't looked closely at the photograph but they seem to answer the question. I suggest the rope would have been connected to the axles rather than the wheels/hubs. The axles would give more downward, rather than inward pressure for secure fixing, possibly in conjunction with wheel chocks? That is the way I will do it.
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by ge_rik » Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:12 pm

I try to work on the principle that if it can realistically do the job then it is probably about right.

In those days, I doubt they would have needed to fill in a risk assessment form (in triplicate) so would have made it up as they went along.

Sounds sensible to me to use the axles as secure fixing points.

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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Trevor Thompson » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:56 pm

I think the axles are the right solution as well.

Its a good strong place to use, a fair curve to minimise chafe in the rope, and in line with the rings.

I think the ring position suggests two ropes to each axle, one going forwards and one backwards. That would hold the carriage down and in place. Its the for and aft movement which is the greater risk, rather than just holding the carriage down as such. If the carriage moves back and for it adds stress and chafe to the ropes.

Trevor

PS I think chocks might have been used - but they need securing or they pop out (as they do with my landrover on its trailer.

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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:56 pm

Time for reassembly of the wagon by attaching the two steps to carry the Brougham wheels.....
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Once firmly glued in place, time for a coat of primer. I made no effort to colour match the existing, far easier to repaint the whole thing.....
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Following the short discussion about how ropes might have been used to secure the load to the transporter wagon I fitted screw rings, similar to the ones shown on the photograph in the Spooner Album.....
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This is not a true copy of the prototype as I had no previous information to follow, therefore it is slightly longer which benefits my Brougham's dimensions, also wider at the deck, which was necessary due to existing detail I wished to keep. Overall it looks right, so I am pleased with the result so far.
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:48 pm

The carriage wagon is now repainted in the original colours and lightly weathered to look as though it has done some work. The Brougham is attached using the rings I fitted to the sides of the wagon, similar to the ones on Spooner's original, and ropes around the axles as we discussed previously. I have also modified the shafts, which are now one unit instead of just two separate shafts. They are now connected by a rear cross beam and diagonal bracing where they fix to the fifth wheel and front axle assembly. They might still not be correct but certainly look better....
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This looks so much better than the first incarnation, which was based on a standard gauge prototype. It makes it more suitable for the limited clearance which was available on the Ffestiniog Railway, but has now shown up the difference in height when placed against the horsebox.
You can see what is coming next ......
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Trevor Thompson » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:03 pm

That looks very nice Peter!

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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:28 pm

Thank you Trevor, well worth the effort I think.
As for the horsebox, it is a Sixteen Mills, West Clare Railways horsebox kit, so is probably on the large side from the start? The dimensions are stated as being 160mm high, which when placed against some of my stock does look tall. Horses do need headroom so I accepted that at the start, but now the contrast with the Brougham carriage is too much to live with.....
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The soleplate has laser-cut axle boxes as a single component so has had to be separated, cut down and re-attached using a joining piece. The springs have been salvaged and stuck back separately. Overall the height has been reduced to 145mm, which is much more pleasing.....
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Old Man Aaron » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:04 am

Aye, that looks much better now that you mention it. Dropping ride height can be tricky, I'm impressed you got 15mm out of it. :thumbright:
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:18 pm

'Every little helps' as the saying goes, so having been given three, 3D printed, Jerry cans I needed to find a suitable place to install them. Recently I have been making little modifications to some existing rolling stock to add small detail to enhance their appearance, so I looked for something suitable.
These are the Jerry cans.....
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And here they are alongside a stationary engine, recently restored to its former glory and being transferred to the BURPS museum collection for display.....
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A minor change, but entirely in keeping.
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Andrew » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:28 pm

That wagon load looks just right - I particularly like the chains... You may have just inspired my to improve a few of my own loads, a perfect winter project...

Cheers,

Andrew.

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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:21 am

That looks very nice

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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:40 pm

I can't believe it has been a month since I last posted on this thread, I haven't done much, but this is what I'm working on at present.
Inspired by Andrew in his (WH) WHR thread, I thought I might add the Ffestiniog Railway Hearse Van to my collection. This is the Timpdon Models kit, and very nice it is too! Well cut and detailed, and plenty of instructions (just as Andrew has already explained), it went together quickly. I found the deep cuts between planking were reluctant to accept paint but after several light spray coats it eventually works.
I sprayed the flat sides and the overlays separately before attaching just to make sure the paint didn't pool in the corners and this has worked well. ....
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More to follow......
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:58 pm

Meanwhile.... I have started to build the incomplete IP Engineering carriage kit which I bought on ebay from a private seller. All I had were the sides, seats, and a few unidentifiable bits, but no instructions.
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I thought it looked too long for my line so I cut a section out of both ends and glued it back together making four, rather than six compartments. The seats provided looked very basic and rather clumsy so I made up some spare ones previously bought from The Lineside Hut.
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New exterior overlays were cut for me by a very helpful friend and I made an interior skin from card to support the window glazing (supplied)....
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More of this to follow too!
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Andrew
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Andrew » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:28 am

Thanks for the progress report Peter, it's nice to see what everyone's up to. I really like what you're doing with the IP kit.

The hearse kit is good, isn't it? I had the same problem with spraying into the etched planking detail but it wasn't too much of an issue because I brush-painted the top coats. As I recall, the first coat of (acrylic) black was pretty watery, with a little washing up liquid added to help it run into the gaps.

Incidentally, I was a bit concerned when I first added the wheels, because they wouldn't turn freely at all, but the advice in the instructions worked fine. I just opened out the holes a fraction with some sandparer wrapped around a dowel, then reassembled and it ran beautifully. Actually, although I say that, I've not tested it yet - the goods train I ran at the weekend seemed too frivilous to include a hearse, somehow!

All the best,

Andrew.

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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:53 pm

Andrew, I haven't fitted the wheels yet as I intend to replace the Binnie ones with metal IP wheels of the same diameter. This will add some weight low down and I plan to put a little lead flashing between the frames too. Pictures to follow.
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Andrew » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:30 pm

Peter Butler wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:53 pm I plan to put a little lead flashing between the frames too.
Yes I did that - having first discounted the option of adding weight by building a lead-lined coffin to go inside...

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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:51 pm

Andrew wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:30 pm
Peter Butler wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:53 pm I plan to put a little lead flashing between the frames too.
Yes I did that - having first discounted the option of adding weight by building a lead-lined coffin to go inside...

I should have thought of that one, and made the doors open too!
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:23 pm

The hearse is now complete but not had its ex-works picture taken yet. Meanwhile, just a comparison shot of seating from different suppliers.....
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The one on the left came with the incomplete IP kit and it took a while for me to work out what they were without instructions, simple slot-together sections.... Doh!!!!
The others are from various Lineside Hut kits and are much more detailed. I chose the middle ones for the IP coach kit, although I had to shorten them to fit, probably because of the extra thickness of the side-wall panelling.
No pictures of the interior yet, but this is the exterior before glazing....
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Re: Time to build a railway...but where?

Post by Peter Butler » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:49 pm

The hearse is complete, as mentioned above, and sited on the railway for its photo session. I am pleased with it, particularly with the added detailing of corner strapping and bolt heads, thanks must go to Andrew for making me aware of those. The metal wheels have made it more stable on the track along with a strip of lead flashing between the frames, it now runs very smoothly....
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Somewhere in the early pages of this thread I probably mentioned my existing hearse, which I scratch-built about forty years ago. This one however was my impression of an upmarket Victorian style hearse, complete with vicar, mourning widow and daughter, also floral tributes on the roof.....

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