RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

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tom_tom_go
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:58 pm

Peter Butler wrote: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:41 pm
A direct feed from mains water supply would be an offence and taken very seriously by your Local Water Authority. Apart from that your water bills would be astronomical. A recirculating system with sump and pump (preferably with an in-line filter) is the way to go so requires a power supply.
Apologies, I did not explain myself. I meant as with most central heating systems you have a mains fed top up feed. However, now that I think about it an open outdoor water feature really doesn't need that as you could just fill it up with a watering can.

Another test patch with SBR and this time I used a pipet as my squirty bottle died after the first go (I did clean it but obviously not enough) and then it was soaked lightly with a spray mist from my hose pipe (Rik's suggestion as he doesn't have issues with a gloss finish for gravel):

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There is a shine to the gravel (you may need to view on a this a computer screen to notice but to the naked eye it's obvious) when you compare it to a patch that is untouched with SBR:

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Mr Bulter reckons this will wear in time but I am not sure, bit disappointed as I was hoping this was going to be the solution...

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:24 pm

Be patient Tom, it will settle down and take the shine off in time. As previously suggested, water doesn't help, particularly on coarse ballast, but you might be OK with your small stones and the fact it is drying quickly.
Edit.... just noticed you are using water washed stone which already has a smooth and shiny surface... real ballast is quarried stone and has sharp surfaces in order to bind together. You might not get the result you expect.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:27 pm

The stone size isn't a problem. After 24 hours it is all solid as a rock so pleased with that result.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:22 pm

Tom, Looking at your pictures on a desktop PC screen ( the only way I do it normally), they look fine to me and I really can't see any shine, other than what you'd expect on clean fine gravel.
If it helps any, the following 2 pics show (a) the granite ballast area around my signal base which was glued down a couple of weeks ago, and (b) the area near an adjacent point which was glued a year or so ago and shows both granite ballast and some chicken grit.

I think you just need to give it some time. Otherwise I'd suggest using different ballast but I know you particularly want to get a beach shingle type effect.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:15 pm

I showed the wife how effective the SBR treated ballast is at stopping the cats throwing it about and all she could say was 'it's too hard now for their paws'.

I shall ignore this comment and continue on as I am the one who ends up cleaning the patio :thumbup:

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Andrew » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:20 pm

Hi all,

I'd agree that any shine disappears after a short while - either that or I soon stopped noticing!

I've got two lengths of SBR-ed ballast, the bit in Clarach station which I wanted to look relatively newly-ballasted, and the bit from Penlan tunnel to under the apple tree, which I wanted to look like it had been down rather longer. On the latter section I sprinkled sieved earth over the top - that certainly took the shine off things and still looks pretty good some years later.

The bit where SBR hasn't worked for me is on the scenic side of things - I tried to use it to glue down some fine (00 scale) ballast on Clarach's platform, and some more sieved earth in the same general area. That worked for a while, but after a while began to crack and peel, possibly aided by pecking birds. I think maybe it just wasn't thick enough there. That said, I'll probably use the same approach if I repair rather than rebuild that area, but just be prepared to reapply the SBA every now and then...

Cheers,

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:52 pm

Thanks everyone for their advice.

I did some more today so will leave that for a while and see how it weathers.

I do like the idea though of setting it all in place, gives a sense of completeness (track work, done).

If I do need to tone the ballast down I reckon a matt varnish will do the job or various paints watered down.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by bazzer42 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:43 pm

Really think I need to do this, I'm sure it must speed up operations if you don't have to spend an hour moving all the loose ballast from points and inside the track. I do like my moss and wonder whether sir would be a barrier to it growing back?

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:16 pm

bazzer42 wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:43 pm I do like my moss and wonder whether sir would be a barrier to it growing back?
Derek, If you look at my second picture above, you'll see the ballast is starting to go green after about a year.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:59 pm

SBR and moss growth.....
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No problem!
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:02 pm

That does look good Peter.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by IanC » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:29 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:02 pm That does look good Peter.
Agreed. It is superb.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by ge_rik » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:58 am

Peter Butler wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:59 pm SBR and moss growth.....
No problem!
All my moss has withered and / or died. You must have had a bit more rain down there than the top end of Wales, Peter. :D
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I agree, no problem with moss growth on SBR - in the right conditions. I'm hoping my moss has just gone into its dormant state :?

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by ge_rik » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:01 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:52 pm Thanks everyone for their advice.

I did some more today so will leave that for a while and see how it weathers.

I do like the idea though of setting it all in place, gives a sense of completeness (track work, done).

If I do need to tone the ballast down I reckon a matt varnish will do the job or various paints watered down.
Patience, dear boy, patience (I'm sure that's a quote from somewhere). I'm sure it'll tone down naturally in no time. As Peter suggests, maybe the washed gravel you're using already has a bit of a gloss, like polished stone.

Rik

PS (Edit) - Almost a quote, it seems - “But believe me, my dear boy, there is nothing stronger than those two: patience and time, they will do it all.” ... Leo Tolstoy
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:26 pm

Rain came this morning and I believe it's washed most of the SBR away as it was dripping from the railway onto the patio.

I have covered it up now but I think I might have to start again or not bother, maybe it's fate.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:03 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:30 am Hi Peter,

I did read your advice before starting with SBR but as we are in high summer I did not bother covering it up.

?
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:22 pm

Thing is Peter, I did the first part on 04/08 so why has it not dired after five days when we have had nothing but hot weather!

Am I applying too much? I sprayed it all until it was all white in colour.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by laalratty » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:37 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:22 pm Thing is Peter, I did the first part on 04/08 so why has it not dired after five days when we have had nothing but hot weather!

Am I applying too much? I sprayed it all until it was all white in colour.
Interesting, when I did my ballasting last year in warm weather (certainly much cooler then it has been in Kent of late) I found it dried within a few hours, although I did cover it for a week on Peter's advice although my gut feeling was that it didn't need it. I also found that the SBR normally sank into the ballast, and left the top surface clean, so maybe you did use a bit too much. The method I prefer to use is to spray the ballast with a bit of water and washing up liquid, then drop the SBR on as it soaks down better. In over a year there has been virtually no movement and only the odd lump coming loose, despite some very wet weather that used to destroy ballast set in cement quite quickly.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:18 pm

The SBR should be liberally applied neat. I soak the ballast with SBR and then leave covered for several days, in fact I have stated that it should be left covered for as long as possible.
The reason behind this is that although the surface dries quickly and becomes firm, it is just a skin and beneath that the SBR remains liquid for some time. Imagine a tin of solvent based paint with the lid left off..... the surface dries but underneath the paint is still liquid. SBR behaves in a similar way although air drying will be accelerated by the fact that exposure to the atmosphere is spread over a much larger area.
I never use water or other additives as this is likely to lessen the adhesive strength.
Don't despair.... leave it for a while to dry out then apply another lighter coat..... then COVER it!
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:32 am

My gut feeling is that you may have applied too much initially. As Peter says, it does form a skin fairly quickly, so if a bit of rain was enough to cause it to drip out after almost a week, that says to me that there was still liquid SRB underneath. That much SRB on the surface might also explain the excessive shininess that was worrying you.
I finally got around to ballasting my station on Wednesday and having checked the forecast decided to leave it uncovered that night, which turned out to be OK. However, what I forgot was that the last 6" of the headshunt gets caught by overspray from the garden irrigation system and when I looked on Thursday morning, that section had gone liquid and whitish again, although the rest was fine. However by yesterday evening, the headshunt had set again and, on the surface at least, I couldn't tell the difference.
So I wouldn't panic if I were you. Leave it alone, cover it, and look again in a week.
Philip

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