RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

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tom_tom_go
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:51 am

My base is gravel boards covered with roofing felt then 10mm pea shingle. Finally, a layer of smaller fish gravel is poured on top.

I think most of you are using a solid base such as concrete or wood with a thin layer of ballast on top so this may be why SBR is working out for you.

Peter, this test section was covered when I went away as advised.

I might try a different area this time using no water to prep the area and covering it up after applying SBR (to note though the first time I tried this on the siding area I didn't use any water).

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:36 am

I have roofing felt on timber with the track screwed down to that and then ballast up to sleeper top.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:55 am

Gravel boards with roofing felt is used throughout my entire railway and is well suited as a base for the fine grain stone I use as ballast as well as crushed oyster shell which I use as alongside as ground cover. I also use fine (N scale) 'sand' in the harbour scene. All of these materials are stuck down with SBR and remain solid once allowed sufficient time to set.
Picture shows ballast and ground cover as described......
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As you can see there is no sheen on the surface.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:15 pm

What brand of SBR is everyone using please just as a comparison.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Tom, I use Everbuild 503 SBR from ebay, currently available at £14.98 freepost.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:36 pm

Mine is Cementone SBR ( by Bostik), which I bought from B&Q ( I think) about 3 or 4 years ago. It has a few lumps in it now but still works fine.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:41 pm

philipy wrote: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:36 pm Mine is Cementone SBR ( by Bostik), which I bought from B&Q ( I think) about 3 or 4 years ago. It has a few lumps in it now but still works fine.
You have the same product I am using then.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:46 pm

Photo of second test patch straight after applying SBR neat from a spray bottle (I do not use as much this time, is this the amount you guys apply by looking at the picture?):

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This is now covered and I will leave it alone!

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:10 pm

Difficult to tell from the picture but well done for persevering. The trouble with using a spray is evident from the amount all over the sleepers etc... I always drip it on from a plastic container...(I have mentioned this before)..... avoiding the sleepers. 'Evo-stik' container is good for this. (other containers are available!)
When yours is dry it will be necessary to peel off the SBR from the sleepers as they will probably remain shiny.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:15 pm

So using a pipet like I use to use for OO scale ballasting would be better?

I spent half hour trying to clear the spray bottle as it didn't work as well!

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by philipy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Your picture looks about like mine after spraying, although as Peter said, it's difficult to be sure.
Peter is also correct about needing to get it off the sleepers ( and rails). A quick wipe with a J-cloth is all I do to the worst affected ones. If not, wait until it dries to the rubbery stage and you can peel it off.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:46 pm

I did wipe the rails with a wet cloth and have now done the same with the sleepers although I reckon they will need the latex cover picking off when dry as I did not wipe them straight after applying the SBR. Next time, I will use a pipet as well.

For now, I will leave this patch covered for a week and see what happens.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Lonsdaler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:13 am

Tom,
There is a major difference to how you have set your track, compared to Peter, Philip and myself - you have that layer of 10mm pea shingle, with your ballast on top. I have found that SBR doesn't hold larger sized stones so well. I think you will have nicely firm ballast, with 'mobile' pea shingle below.
I use Everbuild as well, but don't pay £1000+ for it!
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:34 am

I totally agree with Phil and have reported previously about my early experiments with larger grade ballast material, in my case horticultural grit, which didn't stay put as the SBR works better on fine grade stone.
My first attempt looked like this......
IMG_2170.JPG
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Unfortunately the SBR doesn't have enough surface contact area and when it forms a skin there is not sufficient bond to hold together.
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:44 pm

I am getting a bit obsessive about this!

A spare piece of gravel board with the track screwed directly to it (sleepers were drilled and counter sunk so the screws are flush then covered with ballast to hide them):

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The coal dust was sprinkled on after applying SBR as this seems to work better. I also added washing up liquid as when using a pipet the SBR does not flow very well. No shiny sleepers this time as I did not use the spray bottle. You can still see white patches so hopefully these will go in time.

This test is to see if the ballast sets without having the larger pea shingle under it.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:42 pm

I can see the SBR on the surface in certain areas but not all, however, there is probably enough to hold the gravel in place. I have concerns about the coal though as you are using the SBR as an adhesive rather than a skin.
I'll be interested to see the result of this experiment, particularly if you place it outside after a couple of weeks drying time.
Incidentally, the use of washing-up liquid is to break down the surface tension of water in a dilution. In this case no water so no need for it!
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:12 pm

Well the washing up liquid made a difference Peter...

I picked up these tired coaches recently and I prefer the colour of them to my mint brake coach so I might try and replicate the colour or leave it outside as the previous owner of the newly acquired coaches did to achieve the faded look:

20180820_180757-01.jpeg
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:21 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:12 pm Well the washing up liquid made a difference Peter...
Interesting Tom... what difference did you notice?
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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Peter Butler wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:21 pm
tom_tom_go wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:12 pm Well the washing up liquid made a difference Peter...
Interesting Tom... what difference did you notice?
The SBR was much more free flowing through my smaller sized ballast than without the addition of fairy liquid.

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Re: RWLR - Robin Wood Light Railway

Post by Peter Butler » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:37 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:06 pm

The SBR was much more free flowing through my smaller sized ballast than without the addition of fairy liquid.
Yes Tom, that makes sense, but by reducing the surface tension of the liquid you might have also reduced its viscosity and ability to bind the material together when the skin forms. I hope to hear more on the results of your experiment.
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