The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

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DonW
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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by DonW » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:28 pm

Thanks Peter.

Regarding squares a decent squares is essential. I have two sizes of carpenters squares a roofers square and a small engineers square all of which agree on a right angle. Decent makes not cheap imports. I also have a couple of those squares where the piece with marked measures can be slide across which I don't trust fully. There is a means to clamp the sliding piece, but the fact it can slide makes me less sure of its accuracy. There is also those saws with a handy 90deg between the handle and the saw blade. While these may be handy for a chippie it wouldn't do for a joiner.

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by GTB » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:51 pm

RobRossington wrote: Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:37 pm Well, I can’t say it’s been fun, but we’re getting there! People make styrene look so easy, but I never seem to be able to get this bloody stuff straight and square!
You can't beat practice. Modelling in polystyrene gets easier after the first hundred or so models..... ;)

Below is a basic toolkit for modelmaking with polystyrene sheet, more or less what I've been using for nearly 50 years.....

- Craft knife, X-acto, or equivalent, with a suitable blade. I prefer a #11 straight blade, but a couple of mates swear by the #12 curved blade. I now use a scalpel instead of a craft knife as the blade is sharper and the handle has more precise control, but using scalpels tends to frighten some people. Box cutters and utility knives are OK for cutting boxes, but the blades are too wobbly for precision cutting of polystyrene sheet.

- 150mm and 305mm steel rules.

- 6" engineers square. A 3" square is also nice to have, but not essential.

- 0.3mm Pentel automatic pencil, or equivalent, for marking out.

- 4" warding file with handle.

- Needle files. At minimum a flat, a triangular and a round one.

- Tweezers. I find the fine pointed AA type to work best with small parts. Every now and again I try another shape, but always come back to the AA type.

- Cutting mat and a piece of chipboard or MDF as a work surface.

- Solvent and a fine brush. I use MEK ( Methyl Ethyl Ketone) for sticking bits together and use d-Limonene for laminating large pieces, as it evaporates more slowly. MEK doesn't do brushes a lot of good and it will need replacing fairly frequently, as the point gets a bit dog eared.

- 240 grit sanding block for squaring up edges after cutting. Make your own by fixing the sandpaper to a nice square block of wood with double sided tape.

- Pin vise for drilling holes by hand. Using a powered drill in polystyrene usually ends in disaster as the plastic heats up and grabs the drill bit.

- Small G-clamps. Useful for clamping a ruler to the sheet so it doesn't slip when cutting, especially when cutting narrow strips. Also for clamping parts into assembly jigs, etc.


Like Peter, I wouldn't use superglue for assembling polystyrene parts in a fit. The only time I use superglue with polystyrene is for fixing metal handrails and whitemetal details into drilled holes.

While I use the score and snap method for roughing out parts, it doesn't give a good enough edge to get a good square joint. The edge of parts need to be filed/sanded flat, straight and square, or the joint will change angle as the solvent evaporates out of the joint and the plastic in the joint shrinks.

I personally prefer to use a piercing saw for cutting curves and openings. It requires less cleaning up than the cut and snap technique, which can wander off line on a curved cut. Not everyone gets on with piercing saws though.

I generally mark out first with a fine pencil, but then run a light cut along the line and rub the pencil into the cut. That way the pencil line won't be rubbed off by handling and there is a narrow and highly visible line to work to for filing, sanding etc.

I've made various assembly and sanding jigs over the years, but I also keep a few squared up blocks of wood on the bench that can be clamped into a corner once assembled to keep things square until the joint hardens.

Polystyrene sheet works much like wood, but without the grain to worry about. On very long pieces such as coach sides, I straighten and square up the edges with a small block plane. With a sharp blade and set for a light cut, it gives a nice square straight edge without as much effort as using a file and a sanding block.

I'm a tool junkie and have a lot of tools that might get used once or twice a year on polystyrene, so not really essential........ :roll:

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by philipy » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:19 pm

Not wishing to derail the thread, but my styrene toolkit is almost exactly the same as Graeme's - I've always used scalpels rather than a Stanley knife and personally I prefer a straight blade to a curved one, although I've got two handles with one of each type available for use. I only use the Stanley for cutting big pieces from a large sheet, and then work on it with a scalpel.
I normally use Plastic Weld, never tried Limonene, but next time I need to laminate I'll give it a try.

Graeme, my initial thought is that because Limonene takes longer to evaporate there is more opportunity for subsequent warping, but presumably you have not found this to be an issue?
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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by RobRossington » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:35 pm

Thanks for all the tips and the kind comments guys!

I have most of the tools in Graeme’s tool kit (or rather, I’m lucky that my dad has them!), but I hadn’t thought of things like clamping the ruler to the bench!

I’d started to realise that less is more when it comes to pressure applied to the knife when cutting, But it’s good to have it confirmed, thanks Rod! I guess I just need more practise!

Also, you needn’t worry about glue. I’ve been using Humbrol solvent glue (the one with the needle applicator). I’ve tried using MEK before but didn’t get on with it as it seems to set too quickly. My Dad (and a couple of people in our club) use(s) it and swear by it, I’m just not quick enough! :lol: I only use the superglue in the picture for gluing white metal bits to the plastic, and I have used it to glue some angle to the Piko chassis (for the running plate to sit on) as I wasn’t sure if Piko plastics were like LGB ones, I.e. impossible to melt!

I’ve been building kits for in 00 and 009 since I was about 13, and I’d say I’m pretty good at it these days, this scratchbuilding lark is a whole new ball game! I’m not in any rush though. I want to make sure it looks right before I stick it all together!

Also, don’t worry about thread drift. I’m not bothered, especially if it helps people like myself in the future.

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by RobRossington » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:13 pm

Whilst I’m here....

One thing that has got my head pickled is deciding what boiler diameter to go with. I initially bought some 1 1/2 inch pipe which had an external diameter of 42mm. Now, this to me looked a bit weedy, but then I am most familiar with colonial prototypes that were usually on the large side!

So, I then went out and bought some 50mm pipe, which has an external diameter of 55mm, so a scale 3.4 feet. This to me seems quite big, but I’ve just measured one of my 4mm scale Cyprus locos, which apparently are 3.75 feet diameter!

So now I’m a bit baffled! I was aiming for a sort of short and stumpy look, but I’m not sure if this is too stumpy....

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by DonW » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:02 pm

Probably something in between is what you need. Could you make two cuts along the tube then bend it in ( a bit of broom handle or metal rod on something with a little give should roll it up) then re-solder. Or make a single cut and overlap the join before re-soldering.Not for the faint hearted if for a live steam one and use silver solder or brazing if it is. either way hide the joins at the bottom

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by RobRossington » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:23 pm

DonW wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:02 pm Probably something in between is what you need. Could you make two cuts along the tube then bend it in ( a bit of broom handle or metal rod on something with a little give should roll it up) then re-solder. Or make a single cut and overlap the join before re-soldering.Not for the faint hearted if for a live steam one and use silver solder or brazing if it is. either way hide the joins at the bottom

Don
Yes that’s what I’m thinking. I think the outer diameter needs to be 50mm, which would make the smokebox 52mm ish.

I’m using plastic tube, so it’s possible I’d be able to cut some out and re glue it. Thanks for the suggestion!

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by DonW » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:13 am

If my maths is correct the circumference is Pi x Diameter or about 3 x D so to reduce the diameter by 2mm you remove just over 6mm. I would probably dunk the tube in hot water before trying to squeeze it to soften the tube. You could try a hot air gun but it could collapse the tube. Then use some wire to hold it together while the glue sets. The stuff plumbers use for waste pipes might do the job.

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by philipy » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:04 am

RobRossington wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:23 pm
Yes that’s what I’m thinking. I think the outer diameter needs to be 50mm, which would make the smokebox 52mm ish.

I’m using plastic tube, so it’s possible I’d be able to cut some out and re glue it. Thanks for the suggestion!
Rob, since the diameter is for aesthetc reasons rather than engineering, I'd suggest using a short piece of your tube for the smokebox and cut and slice the boiler barrel to be a snug fit inside it, that way it will be held to a circle and won't keep springing apart whilst you try to glue it. If you cut the boiler an inch or so overlong, you can do the same at the cab end and simply cut that off when everything is glued and solid. Finally, if you cut a short length and put it in the centre but DON'T glue it, you can slide it along to hold things together whilst you glue the long seams in sections and simply pull it off once you cut the cab end to length.
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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by FWLR » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:46 am

Just reread my last post......

"you knows"......Flipping heck Rod get your act together..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by FWLR » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:11 am

This is how I cut my Plasticard Rob, no matter how big the sheet is....

This is a scrap bit just to show you.

DSCN4130.JPG
DSCN4130.JPG (483.75 KiB) Viewed 6409 times

And this is the stuff I use, you can get it off the Bay....It goes a long way and it's what is used in the making of liquid solvent glue, well in the UK it is....

s-l1600.jpg
s-l1600.jpg (118.48 KiB) Viewed 6409 times

I have just bought a 2 1/2 Lt bottle and that will see me well into my real old age..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

For oblongs and round, I use my cordless drill, it can run at very slow speeds, virtually stopped :lol:
The oblong is done by drilling four holes just inside of where I want the oblong, then it the same principal with straight cuts. For tiding up any rough bits on the card it's those files your other half has for their nails, I admit I use them too.... :roll:

Like these...You can get different grades up to 240 grit, also the second photo of those blocks are far better than cutting sandpaper and using a wooden block. They also come in different grades.

61Lo+oIwxvL._SL1024_.jpg
61Lo+oIwxvL._SL1024_.jpg (82.69 KiB) Viewed 6409 times

41Ayj3dNXuL.jpg
41Ayj3dNXuL.jpg (17.71 KiB) Viewed 6409 times

I have been doing a scratch build in-between Grandkid minding duties, but until it's finished and I get the time, it's not going in a thread yet. There you will see how I build with Plasticard. They main thing Rob has I have mentioned is to take your time and don't get over awed by it and people. It's great stuff to work with and I am so glad I now use it, no more stuck fingers with that other thick stuff you need for other materials... :lol: :lol: :lol: Don't get me wrong I do use Foamboard and it is also great stuff to work with and I have made and will continue to do so with it, plus coffee stirrers and all kinds of material, but Plasticard is my favoured material for now...

The thing is Rob, use what is best for you. I have and these are all I need, nice and simple..... :thumbright:

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by BorisSpencer » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:13 pm

I'll just add one thing to the toolkit mix: A glass worktop protector or glass chopping board. Currently 2 for £5 in Lidl, other cheap supermarkets are available.

I find this gives a dead flat surface on which to do glue-ups, I then have a number of 1-2-3 blocks and engineering v-blocks with which to create 90 degree verticals, they also have plenty of weight to them. Every so often the board can be scraped clean with a stanley-knife blade in a pair of pliers.

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by RobRossington » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:12 pm

FWLR wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:11 am This is how I cut my Plasticard Rob, no matter how big the sheet is....

This is a scrap bit just to show you.


DSCN4130.JPG


And this is the stuff I use, you can get it off the Bay....It goes a long way and it's what is used in the making of liquid solvent glue, well in the UK it is....


s-l1600.jpg


I have just bought a 2 1/2 Lt bottle and that will see me well into my real old age..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

For oblongs and round, I use my cordless drill, it can run at very slow speeds, virtually stopped :lol:
The oblong is done by drilling four holes just inside of where I want the oblong, then it the same principal with straight cuts. For tiding up any rough bits on the card it's those files your other half has for their nails, I admit I use them too.... :roll:

Like these...You can get different grades up to 240 grit, also the second photo of those blocks are far better than cutting sandpaper and using a wooden block. They also come in different grades.


61Lo+oIwxvL._SL1024_.jpg



41Ayj3dNXuL.jpg


I have been doing a scratch build in-between Grandkid minding duties, but until it's finished and I get the time, it's not going in a thread yet. There you will see how I build with Plasticard. They main thing Rob has I have mentioned is to take your time and don't get over awed by it and people. It's great stuff to work with and I am so glad I now use it, no more stuck fingers with that other thick stuff you need for other materials... :lol: :lol: :lol: Don't get me wrong I do use Foamboard and it is also great stuff to work with and I have made and will continue to do so with it, plus coffee stirrers and all kinds of material, but Plasticard is my favoured material for now...

The thing is Rob, use what is best for you. I have and these are all I need, nice and simple..... :thumbright:
Thanks! Some good tips there! I follow Adam Savage (of mythbusters on the discovery channel) on YouTube, he’s an incredible modeller when it comes to sci-fi and props, and he uses those nail files too.
BorisSpencer wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:13 pm I'll just add one thing to the toolkit mix: A glass worktop protector or glass chopping board. Currently 2 for £5 in Lidl, other cheap supermarkets are available.

I find this gives a dead flat surface on which to do glue-ups, I then have a number of 1-2-3 blocks and engineering v-blocks with which to create 90 degree verticals, they also have plenty of weight to them. Every so often the board can be scraped clean with a stanley-knife blade in a pair of pliers.
That’s another excellent idea. A member of our club recommended a piece of glass, didn’t think about a worktop protector though!


Anyway, as recommended, I cut a slot out of some of my pipe, and slotted it into a full-size piece for a smokebox and another for a firebox. It’s a bit rough, but it’s definitely the right size now. This was just a quick experiment, so if it doesn’t clean up well enough I can cut another piece and take a bit more care. I’ve got 3m of the stuff so it’s not like I’m going to run out :lol:

Image

Image

It is sitting too low at the back too, but this will be corrected when I assemble properly.

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by DonW » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:29 pm

That looks just the ticket Rob.
I favour emery sticks too. I keep an eye out for cheap packs of multiple sizes. They are good for Whitemetal as well as plastic and when they clog you can just throw them.
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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by RobRossington » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:10 pm

Thanks Don. It’s more a proof of concept than a finished thing at the moment, but I’m happy that I seem to be making progress in the right direction!

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by FWLR » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:52 am

You certainly are Rob. A very impressive job, it's starting to look more and more like a steamer.

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by GTB » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:47 am

RobRossington wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:12 pm Anyway, as recommended, I cut a slot out of some of my pipe, and slotted it into a full-size piece for a smokebox and another for a firebox. It’s a bit rough, but it’s definitely the right size now. This was just a quick experiment, so if it doesn’t clean up well enough I can cut another piece and take a bit more care. I’ve got 3m of the stuff so it’s not like I’m going to run out
Looks like it will be OK. If it doesn't work out, PVC electrical wiring conduit is measured by the OD (unlike water pipe) and is available in a 50mm size.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by RobRossington » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:03 pm

Something has been bugging me over the last few days. The running plate was just too wide, so today I’ve reduced it by about 6mm by taking 3mm from each side. It looks much better now IMO, pictures to follow.

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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by philipy » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:58 pm

It's so annoying when you get that itch and simply can't see what's wrong!

Glad you've sorted it and looking forward to seeing it.
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Re: The Charlwood Light Railway (CWLR)

Post by FWLR » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:50 am

You're right there Philip.

I get an itch all the time and it's so annoying when I can't reach it.... :lol: :lol:

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